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English translation: ICTs (for purists) OR ICT technologies (for those who follow convention)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:ICT technologies
Selected answer:ICTs (for purists) OR ICT technologies (for those who follow convention)
Entered by: Deborah Workman

10:31 Aug 28, 2007
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - IT (Information Technology)
English term or phrase: ICT technologies
I have a text (a report of a European institution) where the phrase "ICT technologies" is repeated countless times.

ICT in this case means "information and communication technologies", so actually we get "information and communication technologies technologies". I think this is a grotesque verbosity.

I would like to hear what native speakers have to say about "ICT technologies". In case it is not correct English, I could point this out to the author.

I have to add, though, that I have found this kind of redundancy in a few (I mean-three) supposedly respectable sources:

...as potential opportunities for cross-border learning have been enhanced by an increased take-up of ICT technologies.
(Oxford Handbook of International Business )

It is sometimes assumed that the diffusion of new ICT technologies will ‘kill distance’ and induce a massive wave of relocation and transformation of the product chain.
(Amable, Bruno, The Diversity of Modern Capitalism)

The new ICT technologies have redefined our notions of time and distance.
(Governments, Globalization, and International Business)

All books published by Oxford University Press.
Kunik
Local time: 06:04
ICTs (for purists) OR ICT technologies (for those who follow convention)
Explanation:
In documents I have worked on the authors have considered ICT single and ICTs is used as the plural. If you are a purist you could therefore use ICTs. But since "ICT technologies" is widely used in spite of the fact that it is redundant (just as "GPS system" is redundant of the "S"), you won't be wrong using it even if you're not "pure".
Selected response from:

Deborah Workman
United States
Local time: 00:04
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their response. This is the case where an option to split points would be really useful, as I am not competent to choose the "correct"answer when native speakers do not agree. :). So I opted for the "compromise". Thanks again!
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +3delete technologies
Mark Nathan
4 +3ICT Technologies
Michael Powers (PhD)
5 +1ICTs (for purists) OR ICT technologies (for those who follow convention)
Deborah Workman
3leave as is or reword
Ken Cox
3The way my company does it....
jccantrell


Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
ict technologies
delete technologies


Explanation:
You are right this is sloppy and should be stamped out!

Mark Nathan
France
Local time: 06:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Marie-Hélène Hayles: An analogous example is "PIN number", which I would also avoid at all costs. Michael may be correct that "ICT technologies" is widely used, but I doubt that IT professionals wouldn't understand ICT used as a stand-alone abreviation!
7 mins
  -> Thanks
neutral  William [Bill] Gray: If you remove it, you have the problem of referring to several technologies as "ICTs", which is less than elegant, and not completely enlightening. The usage within the educational sector has opted for the "double-T" form!
17 mins
  -> maybe in those cases one could go for Ken's suggestion of writing it out in full.
agree  Buck
47 mins
  -> Thanks
disagree  David Moore (X): Sorry Mark, but I'm one of those in Bill's camp; I don't like it, but it is FAR too common to try and "do a Canute"...
1 hr
  -> Hey, my seat's getting wet!
agree  Valters Feists: Plus, it's perhaps just a myth that the sloppy (and ink-wasting) usage has taken over. Google for: "modern ict" (many) and for "modern ict technology/-ies" (fewer!).
3 hrs
  -> Thanks
agree  Polangmar: That's right.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ict technologies
leave as is or reword


Explanation:
This sort of formal duplication of terms is quite common (and not just in English), especially in relatively informal contexts, and many people find it perfectly acceptable. However, the redundancy could be eliminated by using 'ICT' by itself (eliminate 'technologies'), rewording to separate 'technologies' from 'ICT, úsing 'informatics' instead of 'ICT', or replacing 'technologies' with a term such as methods, techniques, systems, approaches, solutions, etc.

Whatever you do, don't use 'IC technologies', since it has a completely different meaning.

Ken Cox
Local time: 06:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 31
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ict technologies
The way my company does it....


Explanation:
In any publication that my company handles, the process for this sort of thing is:

1. First use in the article, spell it out and then put the abbreviation in parentheses.
2. From then on, use the abbreviation.

From your use, you are objecting to the use of double "technologies." As an American, this does not disturb me, but then again, I am not a purist when it comes to language, only getting the thought across is imperative, and this does get the thought across.

Personally, I would NOT have left the term "ICT technologies" but would have spelled it out the first time and then used "ICT" throughout the rest of the text.

Nobody says "IC circuits" but rather "ICs" now. That would be my guideline.

My thought from the USA.

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 21:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
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5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
ict technologies
ICT Technologies


Explanation:
Technically, you are right; however, as profession, this is what is used. Descriptive usage prevails in this case. Possibly most IT individuals are ruminating about other matters, and not the redundancy that interests us.

Mike :)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2007-08-28 10:44:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On the other hand, languages are inherently accurate. Look at the use of the plural marker in English.

Three chairs are in the room.

We already know that "chairs" is plural since it is preceded by "three". So, why change the verb to plural? Why add an "s" to "chair"?

Languages are inherently redundant to facilitate communication.

Please do not get me wrong. I am not advocating unnecessary redundancy. On the other hand, a phrase that is so entrenched in the professional argot such s the one you mentioned, cannot simply be changed because those of us that are more linguistically sensitive so desire to change it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 29 mins (2007-08-28 11:00:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Excuse me - I meant to say, languages are inherently redundant.

I don't believe we can police the inevitable. Language is dynamic. Hence, when an entire group of professionals use certain lexical features in certain ways, it is like a tsunami - it grows into its own force and nothing will stop it.

In the example of redundancy I gave earlier, although logical, most of us would not insist on saying: "Three chair be in the room." And this is in spite of the fact that the standard sentence that is used is highly redundant.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2007-08-28 21:49:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Formal Usage:

Cambridge University

he aim of this workshop was to train practice-based researchers in the performing arts to make better use of ICT technologies that support live collaboration in performance situations. The workshop leaders were Julio D'Escrivan and Richard Hoadley of Anglia Ruskin University; Ian Cross of the Cambridge University Centre for Music and Science; and Alan Blackwell of the Crucible network for Research in Interdisciplinary Design.

The workshop was based in the recently-upgraded music technology teaching facility at Anglia Ruskin University, which contained two group studios each equipped with nine G5 dual-processor Macintoshes. Collaborative facilities included networked sound processing with studio monitors, local MIDI keyboards and audio processors on each workstation, shared headphones for pair work, and central video projection facilities.

The workshop was structured to include a range of participants including technical specialists in the use of SuperCollider and Max/MSP, professional exponents of mixed genre performance and a small selection of practitioners from other performance genres such as poetry, live video art and others. Participants were provided at the start of the day with a broad range of inexpensive sensors, and a short hands-on introduction to the process of interfacing these to performance software such as SuperCollider. The workshop was then be divided into mixed discipline teams for hands-on development and instruction, ensuring that programmers did not ‘race ahead’ of performing collaborators. In the course of the day, the whole group shared experiences during unstructured breaks, with a structured sharing of experiences in the final session. Throughout the day, work in progress was captured and shared by facilitators moving from team to team. The overall ambition was to emulate a ‘collaboration masterclass’ as the most appropriate model for practice-based research workshops applying technology in the performing arts.

OXFORD UNIVERSITY


PDF]
"Impact of Emerging Information and Communication Technologies on ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
The emerging ICT technologies/tools considered are: modelling and simulation, ... (PhD) in Physiology from Oxford University. He is currently a Professor of ...
ec.europa.eu/.../events/ict_bio_2006/docs/satellite-events/patient-safety_cvs_abstracts_photos.pdf - Similar pages - Note this


HARVARD UNIVERSITY

PDF]
Barriers to ICT Diffusion to Poor People
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
meeting took place on the campus of Harvard University in Cambridge Mass. ... ICT technologies have become fundamental infrastructure for doing business in ...
www.idrc.ca/uploads/user-S/10787612051Harvard_Forum_2003_-_... - Similar pages - Note this


OXFORD UNIVERSITY

PDF]
"Impact of Emerging Information and Communication Technologies on ...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
The emerging ICT technologies/tools considered are: modelling and simulation, ... (PhD) in Physiology from Oxford University. He is currently a Professor of ...
ec.europa.eu/.../events/ict_bio_2006/docs/satellite-events/patient-safety_cvs_abstracts_photos.pdf - Similar pages - Note this

Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
Local time: 00:04
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  William [Bill] Gray: Yes. The ICT abbrev. has taken on a life of its own, and we now have technologies which are considered to be related to it. This is especially true in the educational sector.
9 mins
  -> Thank you, Bill - Mike :)
agree  Jack Doughty
16 mins
  -> Thank you, Jack - Mike :)
agree  David Moore (X): This (sadly, IMHO) has to join the other "repeaters", such as "VIN number", "PIN number" and so on...
1 hr
  -> Thank you, David - no need to get depressed though. We need to "accept what we cannot change, ..." - Mike :)
agree  Alexander Demyanov
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Alexander - Mike :)
agree  Alfa Trans (X)
6 hrs
  -> Thank you, Marju - Mike :)
disagree  Polangmar: 1. Not in a formal text. 2. We don't say "US states":)
7 hrs
  -> It definitely IS USED in formal texts, including Oxford University, Cambridge University, Harvard University, etc. The fact we don't say U.S. States is inmaterial - educated people in formal situations DO SAY ICT Technologies. - Mike :)
disagree  Valters Feists: Q: How does the redundancy improve these university texts? Were they written by IT/telecom professionals - or by, e.g., sociologists? Also note that *not always* have they written "ICT technologies".
14 hrs
  -> IMHO redundancy does not improve it. However, as a Ph.D. in linguistics, it is my belief we should describe the most common educated usage by professionals in the field. I believe that is what we have here. If you disagree with my premise, I understand.
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14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ict technologies
ICTs (for purists) OR ICT technologies (for those who follow convention)


Explanation:
In documents I have worked on the authors have considered ICT single and ICTs is used as the plural. If you are a purist you could therefore use ICTs. But since "ICT technologies" is widely used in spite of the fact that it is redundant (just as "GPS system" is redundant of the "S"), you won't be wrong using it even if you're not "pure".

Deborah Workman
United States
Local time: 00:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 14
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for their response. This is the case where an option to split points would be really useful, as I am not competent to choose the "correct"answer when native speakers do not agree. :). So I opted for the "compromise". Thanks again!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michael Powers (PhD): This is nice compromise. In parentheses (prescriptivists) ICT or ICTs; (descipritivists) ICT Technologies
5 mins
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