Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
principio di gradualità e di proporzionalità
English translation:
graduality (or progressiveness)
Added to glossary by
LAB2004
Oct 5, 2013 10:09
10 yrs ago
20 viewers *
Italian term
principio di gradualità e di proporzionalità
Italian to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
http://www.difesa.it/SGD-DNA/Staff/DG/PERSOCIV/Pubblicazioni...
I'm struggling with how to translate gradualità here and in fact am wondering whether it is tautologous and can be omitted, simply translating this as the principle of proportionality.
Any thoughts gratefully received.
I'm struggling with how to translate gradualità here and in fact am wondering whether it is tautologous and can be omitted, simply translating this as the principle of proportionality.
Any thoughts gratefully received.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +1 | graduality (or progressiveness) |
Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
|
| 4 | principle of harsher punishment for reoffenders and proportionality |
Thomas Roberts
|
References
| interesting reference here |
CristianaC
|
Proposed translations
+1
50 mins
Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
Italy
Italy
Native in Italian
Specializes in field
Italy
Italian Lawyer & Legal Translator
Native in: Italian 
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Italian to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
90
Selected
graduality (or progressiveness)
proporzionalità and gradualità are two different concepts.
The former means (roughly) that the penalty must be proportional to the seriousness/gravity of the offence.
The latter means that, in case of recidivism, a higher/harsher (type of) penalty should be applied than that strictly based on the proportionality criterion.
In other words, in case of recidivism a penalty progressively (or gradually) higher/harsher should be applied, going beyond the strict application of the principle of proportionality.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2013-10-05 11:01:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(you will find sufficient corroboration to my point in the document you cited)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2013-10-05 11:02:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.it/#hl=it&q="graduality of the penalty"
https://www.google.it/#aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_rfai=&hl=it&q="p...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-10-05 13:17:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The word "principle", by nature, is usually followed by an abstract noun (e.g. "principle of proportionality") and less frequently by a circumlocution.
The "principio di gradualità della sanzione" being an Italian expression, I personally agree with the translation found in EUR-LEX which I cited right above, respectively:
"...excessive interpretation of Article 24(2) of Regulation No 4253/88, by ignoring the criterion of 'GRADUALITY OF THE PENALTY'.
and
"...fully consistent with the requirements of individualisation and PROGRESSIVENESS OF THE PENALTY"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-10-05 16:06:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
this is the second quotation in full:
"It does not seem to me to be fully consistent with the requirements of individualisation and progressiveness of the ‘penalty’ – two principles of cardinal importance in any punitive system, both in the criminal and the administrative spheres"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-10-05 16:07:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
and this is the direct link to it:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
The former means (roughly) that the penalty must be proportional to the seriousness/gravity of the offence.
The latter means that, in case of recidivism, a higher/harsher (type of) penalty should be applied than that strictly based on the proportionality criterion.
In other words, in case of recidivism a penalty progressively (or gradually) higher/harsher should be applied, going beyond the strict application of the principle of proportionality.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 52 mins (2013-10-05 11:01:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(you will find sufficient corroboration to my point in the document you cited)
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 53 mins (2013-10-05 11:02:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.google.it/#hl=it&q="graduality of the penalty"
https://www.google.it/#aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_rfai=&hl=it&q="p...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-10-05 13:17:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The word "principle", by nature, is usually followed by an abstract noun (e.g. "principle of proportionality") and less frequently by a circumlocution.
The "principio di gradualità della sanzione" being an Italian expression, I personally agree with the translation found in EUR-LEX which I cited right above, respectively:
"...excessive interpretation of Article 24(2) of Regulation No 4253/88, by ignoring the criterion of 'GRADUALITY OF THE PENALTY'.
and
"...fully consistent with the requirements of individualisation and PROGRESSIVENESS OF THE PENALTY"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-10-05 16:06:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
this is the second quotation in full:
"It does not seem to me to be fully consistent with the requirements of individualisation and progressiveness of the ‘penalty’ – two principles of cardinal importance in any punitive system, both in the criminal and the administrative spheres"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2013-10-05 16:07:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
and this is the direct link to it:
http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone who contributed. Apologies for the late award of points."
2 hrs
Thomas Roberts
Native in Italian
&
English
Specializes in field
Multilingual academic lawyer
Native in: English (Variant: Scottish) , Italian
Works in: Italian to English, German to English, French to English, and 3 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
2715
principle of harsher punishment for reoffenders and proportionality
No single name for the former concept in EN
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
: your theory on the lack of a "single name for the concept" is not shared by EUR-LEX (which uses both "graduality of the penalty" and "progressiveness of the penalty", as I showed under my answer. // You're wrong: only "penalty" in one version.
2 hrs
|
|
True, but the term appears between inverted commas in both versions
|
Reference comments
1 day 6 hrs
CristianaC
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in Italian
&
English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Finance-legal specialist- Ivy League MBA
Native in: Italian , English
Works in: English to Italian, Italian to English, French to Italian, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
245
Reference:
interesting reference here
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
Sebastiano Massimo Barbagallo
: Overkilling evidence :-)
1 hr
|
|
compelling indeed :)
|
Something went wrong...