| Pages in topic: < [1 2 3 4 5] > | Poll: Do you have to be a believer in order to translate a religious text? 投稿者: ProZ.com Staff
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Denis Fesik wrote:
It will certainly take exceptional skill to pretend you know how to write about religious things. I wonder if it is possible for an atheist mind to develop a strong command of just the language part of any religion (while remaining in denial of its substance). (...)
I don't agree with most of your points, but they're really interesting, and I'd like to come back to you in the next days, if you don't mind.
You also mention Tolstoy, one of my enduring loves, although I'm not going to embark on a quick brush up on his writings on religion right now. I might well read Anna Karenina again, focusing on Levin.
| | | | | Don't believe it | May 29, 2021 |
Matthias Brombach wrote:
... that you, Mervyn, have to note all the capitalised letters in the order they are published and see, what hidden message they will build finally, like "fxxk xff, wxxxxr" or similar. That's what I believe.
FUnnily enough I was going to attempt this myself but sadly it's impossible in a language where no words start with CK.
I checked.
In a dictionary.
I had to pop next door to borrow one, obviously.
Turns out Tom and Shirley have a whole wall of them. Cheaper than bricks now everything's gone digital.
| | | | | I saw what you did there | May 29, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote:
FUnnily enough I was going to attempt this myself but sadly it's impossible in a language where no words start with CK.
I checked.
In a dictionary.
I had to pop next door to borrow one, obviously.
Turns out Tom and Shirley have a whole wall of them. Cheaper than bricks now everything's gone digital.
| | | | | Then please try ... | May 29, 2021 |
Ice Scream wrote: Matthias Brombach wrote:
... that you, Mervyn, have to note all the capitalised letters in the order they are published and see, what hidden message they will build finally, like "fxxk xff, wxxxxr" or similar. That's what I believe. FUnnily enough I was going to attempt this myself but sadly it's impossible in a language where no words start with CK. I checked. In a dictionary.
... reading backwards, when he stops it, read it aloud and headbanging, while listening to Death Metal. It could be a Welsh spell, too, or from the borderlines of NI.
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Personal affinities should not be an obstacle .
| | | | | @P.L.F. Persio | May 31, 2021 |
P.L.F. Persio wrote:
I don't agree with most of your points, but they're really interesting, and I'd like to come back to you in the next days, if you don't mind.
You also mention Tolstoy, one of my enduring loves, although I'm not going to embark on a quick brush up on his writings on religion right now. I might well read Anna Karenina again, focusing on Levin.
Thank you for answering, P.L.F, I didn't really expect anyone would react to what I wrote, not in this forum. I conceived my post as a bit of a puzzle that would either repel a reader as complete and utter bigotry or make them want a dose of what I'd been taking (no substances, honest). It's remarkable that you mentioned Levin (his name was actually Lyovin, the letter 'e' being stripped of its umlaut-style modifier, which made the name, Russian by design, to sound Jewish): out of all the characters there, he was one of the least human, more of a sermon incarnate, because Tolstoy himself chose to speak through him. Anyway, even that sermonic narrative couldn't ruin Anna Karenina – it was a brilliant work worth a bunch of re-reads, preferably in the original (if you switch from it to, e. g., Resurrection, you'll feel like entering a stuffy room from the outdoors, or maybe you won't, who knows).
What I meant was that Tolstoy's 'religion' was a one-man-show (some say he might have had renounced his beliefs in his end-of-life confession) pretending to undermine, in one fell swoop, what had been a huge part of life of a huge string of generations: that may seem like nothing to a modern-day thinker in Western Europe because of how people tend to treat religion these days (it's a great tool for keeping things nice and orderly, and a great source of feel-goodness in everyday life, so today, people often go shopping around for a religion following the "What's in it for me?" paradigm). Another system of views is that it is a global conspiracy designed to conveniently oppress the ignorant masses, but hey, I come from Soviet Russia, am I not supposed to know all about it? I'm just daring to raise my voice in humble opposition to this zeitgeist, claiming that religion might actually be an experience rather than a concoction of ideas (wild guess: maybe some people who are blind from birth can become very good at writing about light and colors, but it will definitely take them a lot of mental energy, maybe fueled by a spark of genius, which is also a word used to describe things taking on a religious hue)
| | | | | Religion As Coping Mechanism, Neurosis Of The Masses, Etc. | May 31, 2021 |
I have known people who use religion as a coping mechanism, so that they don't get overwhelmed with their own issues, and by those of the people, often loved ones, who are in their immediate environment, and whose circumstances, in some instances, have no hope of remedy. Coping seems to be a method that is used to preserve one's sanity. It soothes people to think there is a happy-ever-afterlife. Sigmund Freud, an atheist who, as psychoanalyst (and who, also, was a translator, BTW), was more inte... See more I have known people who use religion as a coping mechanism, so that they don't get overwhelmed with their own issues, and by those of the people, often loved ones, who are in their immediate environment, and whose circumstances, in some instances, have no hope of remedy. Coping seems to be a method that is used to preserve one's sanity. It soothes people to think there is a happy-ever-afterlife. Sigmund Freud, an atheist who, as psychoanalyst (and who, also, was a translator, BTW), was more interested in the individual and considered religion to be the "neurosis of the masses". What's known as "herd mentality", "our way is the only right way" (religious intolerance), is a phenomenon that certainly exists, even to the extent that individual congregations within the same denomination are often at odds with one another. I find it interesting, though, that the atheistic neo-Marixist BLM movement that has come about here in the United States is involved in promoting its own brand of herd mentality, as many kinds of movements, by definition, usually do, no matter what their goal or goals. I've never been much of a conformist, which is a behavioral attitude that can sometimes put one in peril. But if you're not true to yourself, I don't think you can get very far with want you mean to accomplish in different areas of your life. To get back to Freud, interestingly enough, his creation, psychoanalysis, has often been thought of as a kind of religion, and the followers who were in his immediate circle have often been referred to as his "disciples".
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| | | | | Some believe | May 31, 2021 |
Some people worship the image of their cult leader being slowly tortured to death. They also believe that during their rituals, they are eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Disgusting, isn't it?
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| You Must Have Read... | May 31, 2021 |
Tom in London wrote:
Some people worship the image of their cult leader being slowly tortured to death. They also believe that during their rituals, they are eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Disgusting, isn't it?
...Freud's book, "Totem and Taboo". BTW, I have wanted, since you sent me a link to the Freud Museum in London many years back, when we were having a discussion on one of the kudoz pages about unethical psychology experiments on animals, to thank you for that. As a result, the first thing I did when I arrived in London on a train from Northern Wales a few years ago, was take a cab directly to that museum. Also, since I had read the translation, by Molnar, I believe, that he created from Freud's diary over a period of many months, on the museum's premises, which covered the last decade of Freud's life, I was well-prepared for my visit. It has made a lasting impression on me. I've never had much interest in Freud's "Totem and Taboo". But I think that his "Civilization and It's Discontents", which, if I remember correctly, was written as a response to the horrific carnage of WWI, is much more pertinent in terms of contemporary Western culture and society, and in terms of all destructive aggression in the world that has taken place throughout history, including now. It's the idea of Thanatos vs Eros.
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Denis Fesik wrote:
I'm just daring to raise my voice in humble opposition to this zeitgeist, claiming that religion might actually be an experience rather than a concoction of ideas (wild guess: maybe some people who are blind from birth can become very good at writing about light and colors, but it will definitely take them a lot of mental energy, maybe fueled by a spark of genius, which is also a word used to describe things taking on a religious hue)
I'm completely in awe of your eloquence, of the passion you put into your insightful, acute, highly intelligent observations, and in excellent English to boot!
Your posts require an examination every bit as logical and intense as yours. I'll come back to this discussion, and I hope I'll be able to do justice to both of them.
Thank you so much.
| | | | | Maybe the question needs to be fleshed (and blooded) out | Jun 3, 2021 |
"A religious text" doesn't give us much to go on. A proselytising text, for example, might be better handled (and tolerated!) by a believer .
Besides, none of our views might be shared by the client. If the client viewed the text as sacred and saw unbelievers as spiritually unprepared to engage with it, I don't think I'd object, any more than I'd object to rounds of funding for young entrepreneurs (or screenwriters or beekeepers) that cut me out due to my advanced age.
| | | | | Civilisation and its Discontents | Jun 3, 2021 |
Barbara Cochran, MFA wrote: Tom in London wrote:
Some people worship the image of their cult leader being slowly tortured to death. They also believe that during their rituals, they are eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Disgusting, isn't it? ...Freud's book, "Totem and Taboo". BTW, I have wanted, since you sent me a link to the Freud Museum in London many years back, when we were having a discussion on one of the kudoz pages about unethical psychology experiments on animals, to thank you for that. As a result, the first thing I did when I arrived in London on a train from Northern Wales a few years ago, was take a cab directly to that museum. Also, since I had read the translation, by Molnar, I believe, that he created from Freud's diary over a period of many months, on the museum's premises, which covered the last decade of Freud's life, I was well-prepared for my visit. It has made a lasting impression on me. I've never had much interest in Freud's "Totem and Taboo". But I think that his "Civilization and It's Discontents", which, if I remember correctly, was written as a response to the horrific carnage of WWI, is much more pertinent in terms of contemporary Western culture and society, and in terms of all destructive aggression in the world that has taken place throughout history, including now. It's the idea of Thanatos vs Eros. [Edited at 2021-05-31 19:57 GMT] [Edited at 2021-05-31 19:59 GMT] [Edited at 2021-05-31 20:01 GMT] [Edited at 2021-05-31 20:44 GMT] [Edited at 2021-05-31 21:29 GMT]
Yes - Civilisation and its Discontents is probably the easiest route into Freud's oeuvre of writings, although his other books are equally interesting - so long as one bears in mind the shortcomings of his approach, which many have pointed out. I'm tickled that you took a cab straight from the railway station to Freud's house! All on a suggestion from me! As for religion: organised religion has given us the world's greatest art and architecture but also generates endless wars between believers of different belief systems. However I would not discount that individual religious experience has its importance or, as a Dublin taxi driver once said to me "try praying. It works".
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Mervyn Henderson (X) 
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Maybe you misunderstood that Dub taxi driver. Who knows, maybe he had that Ted Bundy or that Jimmy Savile or that Jean-Marc Dutroux or that Josef Fritzl in the back of his cab once, only they took it as "preying". It certainly worked for them. So how about you? Do you pray or prey?
| | | | | Those Irish ... | Jun 3, 2021 |
Mervyn Henderson wrote:
Maybe you misunderstood that Dub taxi driver. Who knows, maybe he had that Ted Bundy or that Jimmy Savile or that Jean-Marc Dutroux or that Josef Fritzl in the back of his cab once, only they took it as "preying". It certainly worked for them. So how about you? Do you pray or prey?
Every Friday evening, after our lesson for the Cambridge Certificate of Proficiency in English, our teacher from Cork used to say to us: "It's the weekend now: be good but, if you can't be good, be careful!"
You should try it, Mervyn!
| | | | | I have already answered it before, but... | Jun 3, 2021 |
'Do you have to be a believer in order to translate a religious text?'
No, we don't have to be, but something that can also help would be to respect the beliefs of each other.
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