This question was closed without grading. Reason: No acceptable answer
Feb 23, 2012 10:12
12 yrs ago
English term

Further to the question "Which is correct दरवाज़े, तेज़ी..or दरवाजे, तेजी...

English to Hindi Tech/Engineering Marketing / Market Research
I would like to thank all who have taken their time to throw some light on this issue. Some has provided good explanation. But my question is still un-answered. Even, I am aware that both versions are acceptable but it creates a lot of confusion. I wanted an answer in order to put something in place to avoid this confusion. Just see this example in order to know how it affects a translator.
Recently, one candidate took a Hindi translation test with The Big Word. The text on computing was in 2 parts, with up to 900 words. The proof-reader marked spelling of all the words which did not have a dot, as wrong. In that volume of the text, 2 to 3 same words without a dot appeared in the document for about 8 to 10 times and all were marked in red. In total about 30 mistakes were shown. As a result of that many mistakes the candidate failed the test.

In fact there was not much wrong with the translation. This issue was raised with the Big Word officer to say that there was nothing wrong with the translation and both versions of the spellings are accepted. The officer’s answer was “we have validated proof-reader and their decision is final”. The non Hindi speaker officer did not have a clue of what the person was trying to explain to her.

I would like to see something solid being put in place to challenge these proofreaders. Considering that 'both versions are right’ does not solve the problem or the confusion. If it is decided (I do know who has authority to decide this) that, it is correct to use a dot for ‘z’ (ज़) and ‘ph' (फ़) but, for other words such as-दरवाज, तेजी, ताजा, जंग, सजे, जिंदगी डिजाइन, कब्जा, बजार, रोज, etc, there is no need to use a dot under ज, it will make our lives a lot easier. These words are now accepted in Hind therefore they should be spelt with Hindi pronunciation and should not have any Urdu influenced on them. Accepting both versions has not done any good but has created a lot of confusion.
Proposed translations (Hindi)
5 darwaza

Discussion

UrbanMonk Feb 24, 2012:
The linguistic characters are just symbols... Sound is an energy; the characters are symbols for the sound energy. the science of मंत्र follows this rule. 'ज़' is equivalent sound for 'Z' and 'ज' is equivalent sound for 'J'... Hindi speaking folks from different regions have different accents thats why majority of so called 'Literate' Hindi-speakers say quote - both versions are right - unquote. 'ऋ', as per grammatical rules of Panini (Creator of Sanskrut grammar) has to be sounded as 'ru' but hindi speakers always pronounce it as 'ri'... and keep arguing that their pronounciation is right... but if it was 'ri', it would have been written as either 'रि' or 'री'... please think over it that why 'पृथ्वी'? why not 'प्रीथ्वी'?? or 'प्रिथ्वी'??.. 'ज्ञ' का सही उच्चारण 'ग्न्य' है, 'ग्य' नहीं| यदि होता तो 'भाग्य' को 'भाज्ञ' लिखा जाता?? In short, Z is always written with nukta 'ज़'... and J is always written as 'ज' confusion is created only when MISPRONOUNCIATION takes place so always try to justify the sound, real sound! दरवाज़ा is right, not दरवाजा...'TEJ' written as 'तेज' becomes 'light' or 'aura'. 'तेज़' is speedy !! just like the human body following rules: eat with mouth, listen with ears, smell with nose, grammar also has set rules.
Balasubramaniam L. Feb 23, 2012:
I can understand your anguish at failing the translation test. It is something we have all gone through. But one should learn from our experience. At least I have, after having failed many such tests on equally flimsy grounds. I now take a "doodh ka jala chach bhi fook fook kar piye" policy with these tests and take extreme precaution to make the test translation techincally correct from all aspects, including issues of spelling, even when I personally don't agree with many of the rules of spelling. After all, this is not a personally attributed writing that we are doing here, but someone's else's work and so are bound to follow whatever rules they want us to follow, provided they do not violate the basic rules of the language. This policy has stood me in good stead, and hope that it will be useful to you also. In our personal writing, which we do for our own pleasure, we can follow our own spelling preferences and choice words. And finally, this was a fit topic for discussion in the forum, rather than here. It would have come to notice, and benefit, of many more translators there. But I am glad you did raise this issue, it needed to be discussed.
Shri Krishna Sharma Feb 23, 2012:
Use of Nukta I think accepting such words without Nukta(.) in Hindi is ok but when we want to differentiate, I feel that in Hindi we write the way we speak, this is best maintained if we speak correctly. e.g. for daily we write'रोज’- but for writing 'rose' in Hindi we write ’रोज़' . we do not speak 'darwazaa' the way we speak 'raja' or baaja'. Thus accepting words without nukta is OK, but if we want to differentiate, we would have to follow the way these words are spoken in the original language, from which these have been taken.
Ramesh Kulandaivel Feb 23, 2012:
I go with Lalit Sati.
Lalit Sati Feb 23, 2012:
"Nukta: Some borrowed words are having sounds, which are not formed in Sanskrit. For such sounds nukta is used below the letters such as क़, ख़, ग़, ज़, फ़.
Many writers, newspapers, magazines do not use nuktas. For some of them they are optional. But in writing high Hindi nuktas are preferred. "
(http://www.lisindia.net/Hindi/Hindi_script.html)
Language Information Services (LIS)-India, a major Project of the Central Institute of Indian Languages (CIIL)
Shera Lyn Parpia Feb 23, 2012:
I would like to suggest that there may be room for confusion with some words whose meanings change according to whether there isa dot under the letter. For instance जंग and ज़ंग are words which have their own separate meanings. This is not true for all words of course.
Language is a living, changing body and as such rules do change with time and different rules can exist in different places. I suggest that the exam candidate should familiarise himself with the rules used by the examining body and follow them when he does the test or works for them. After all this is what we do when we work in UK English and USA English.

Proposed translations

18 hrs

darwaza

Z is always sounded as 'ज़' ; J is always sounded as 'ज'... simple! दरवाज़ा, तेज़, फ़ैसला, ज़माना, रोज़, are eamples of phoenitically correst words... तेज can only be right when used in sense of light or aura.
Example sentence:

दरवाज़ा बंद है| तेज़ी से फ़ैसला करो, ज़माना इंतज़ार कर रहा है|

Note from asker:
No one has been able to suggest a solution. All are together in the same भेड़ चाल.
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