Apr 29, 2020 14:42
4 yrs ago
39 viewers *
French term
Translator/Terminologist/Teacher
Native in: Arabic (Variants: Moroccan, Standard-Arabian (MSA)) 
Works in: English to Arabic, Arabic to English, Arabic to French, and 3 more.
moyenne couronne
French to English
Tech/Engineering
Transport / Transportation / Shipping
Les tracés de la Grande Rocade Est et du Plateau de Saclay, situés en moyenne couronne, sont homogènes en termes de déplacements : la variation de la capacité entre les heures de pointe et les heures creuses nécessite de mettre en place un métro automatique à capacité adaptée.
I have found "inner suburb" for petite couronne and "outer suburb" for outer suburb but I can't find the equivalent for moyenne couronne.
I have found "inner suburb" for petite couronne and "outer suburb" for outer suburb but I can't find the equivalent for moyenne couronne.
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| article on transport in Paris |
polyglot45
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Proposed translations
+1
18 hrs
Selected
the middle ring
"couronne" = a ring / donut shaped territory / suburbs that surrounds central Paris
moyenne couronne = one of the concentric "rings", the one that is in-between the "inner ring" (close to / next to Central Paris) and the "outer ring"
[la Grande Rocade Est et du Plateau de Saclay], situés en moyenne couronne
=
..., located in the middle ring of Paris' suburbs
moyenne couronne = one of the concentric "rings", the one that is in-between the "inner ring" (close to / next to Central Paris) and the "outer ring"
[la Grande Rocade Est et du Plateau de Saclay], situés en moyenne couronne
=
..., located in the middle ring of Paris' suburbs
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
1 hr
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Thanks!
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| agree |
writeaway
: this makes me think they are indeed talking about a route, not an area: a variation de la capacité entre les heures de pointe et les heures creuses nécessite de mettre en place un métro automatique à capacité adaptée
1 hr
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it could equally apply to some "ring road" (or "circle line") as well as to a ring-shaped territory. I think that here "moyenne couronne" is the territory where this metro line is located. Thanks!
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| agree |
ph-b (X)
: The best answer so far.
2 hrs
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Merci!
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| agree |
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
: Perhaps, in the original poster's translation, he could substantiate a little further for a lay person by writing "the middle ring of suburbs."
6 hrs
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Yes. Thanks!
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: THe text does not refer to Paris. 'Middle" is not the English for 'moyenne'mean
12 hrs
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it takes only few seconds - if you ask Google the right question - to find the whole ST published online and waiting to be picked up **and read**: http://www.scmsa.eu/archives/SCM_Metro_Grand_Paris_2011_06_2... // take a look at the page 2 ..
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| disagree |
Chris Pr
: The term "ring" all alone has no geographical, planning or topographical meaning whatsoever....maybe "donut" would have been the better choice...?
20 hrs
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If someone told me that one day I would be reading such nonsense, I wouldn't have believed it.
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| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: with the comment by Chris above. Absolutely senseless
8 days
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Interesting use of "senseless" - OTOH even by reading them backwards or upside down I couldn't make any sense of your comments ...
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+2
13 mins
Marco Solinas
Native in English
Accurate, professional translations
Native in: English 
, Italian
Works in: Italian to English, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
16
middle suburb
See https://books.google.ca/books?id=xqeB3zBd5ygC&pg=PA193&lpg=P... for an example.
Please note the low confidence.
Please note the low confidence.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: This could work, but depends on Asker's context — in particular, if it mentions inner / middle / outer. Note, too, that the 'couronne' would be 'suburbs' — in the singular, it would be more 'faubourg' or 'un banlieue'
51 mins
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| agree |
philgoddard
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Francois Boye
: middle is not moyen
11 hrs
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| neutral |
Daryo
: "middle ring" makes more sense to me // you can not really omit "ring".
18 hrs
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Just add "ring"
1 day 7 hrs
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-3
19 mins
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Mexico
Mexico
Mexico
Confianza, certeza, creatividad.
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Mexican)
Works in: English to Spanish, Italian to Spanish, French to Spanish, and 6 more.
the middle/central range
The routes of the Grande Rocade Est and the Plateau de Saclay, located in the middle ring, are homogeneous in terms of travel.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Middle-Rocky-Mountains
https://www.britannica.com/place/Middle-Rocky-Mountains
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: While 'ring' might be usable, neither 'central' nor 'range' could work here.
42 mins
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| neutral |
philgoddard
: Rocade, not Rockies!
3 hrs
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| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: you haven't read the context
5 hrs
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| disagree |
Daryo
: with your answers and "reference" [Rocky-Mountains around Paris?] OTOH "the middle ring" is fine.
18 hrs
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1 hr
Michael Grabczan-Grabowski
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Works in field
Canada
Affordable. High Quality. Native English
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, South African, US, Australian, Canadian, New Zealand)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, Polish to English
further afield from the inner suburbs
In English, the term "inner suburbs" encompasses both "petite couronne" and "moyenne couronne." A distinction isn't normally made.
If you have to distinguish between "inner," "medium," and "outer" suburbs, you could consider rephrasing it like this:
"The routes of the Grande Rocade Est and the Plateau de Saclay, located further afield from the inner suburbs, are similar in terms of travel..."
If you have to distinguish between "inner," "medium," and "outer" suburbs, you could consider rephrasing it like this:
"The routes of the Grande Rocade Est and the Plateau de Saclay, located further afield from the inner suburbs, are similar in terms of travel..."
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: I think this is unbearably clumsy, rather fuzzy and colloquial, and doesn't admit any possibility of having 3 rings, which could well be the essence of the document here.
12 mins
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True. It depends on the rest of the document and how important it is to make the distinctions. Given the example above, I thought it worked all right. :-)
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: rather convoluted. inner, middle, and outer ring suburbs seems to be what's needed
4 hrs
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That's fair. If inner, middle, and outer ring suburbs are differentiated and referred to throughout the text, then I would use your suggestion.
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| neutral |
Daryo
: unnecessarily complicated + it could be interpreted to also apply to the "outer" ring
17 hrs
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True. Thanks for the feedback, Daryo.
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-6
24 mins
Francois Boye
United States
United States
Native in French
United States
An economic geek with social skills
Native in: French
Works in: English to French, French to English, Spanish to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
mean crown
une couronne est circulaire; donc on peut la diviser en deux
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 18:52:40 GMT)
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https://langloishg.fr/2013/03/27/un-territoire-de-linnovatio...
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 19:21:26 GMT)
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crown = courbure in mathematics (see the attachment)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 19:24:35 GMT)
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crown = curvature in English (see the attachment)
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-04-29 20:51:02 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_curve
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 18:52:40 GMT)
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https://langloishg.fr/2013/03/27/un-territoire-de-linnovatio...
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 19:21:26 GMT)
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crown = courbure in mathematics (see the attachment)
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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-04-29 19:24:35 GMT)
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crown = curvature in English (see the attachment)
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Note added at 6 hrs (2020-04-29 20:51:02 GMT)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_curve
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Tony M
: Meaningless in Asker's context of public transportation / This is nothing about geometry! We're talking more about town planning! These are descriptions of the 'zones' of Paris.
37 mins
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Geometry is indeed relevant to how roads are designed!// https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_curve
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| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: makes no sense here
5 hrs
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_curve
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| disagree |
Daryo
: BOTH "moyenne" AND "couronne" misinterpreted / wrong meaning presumed !!! Only possible result: nonsense that fits in the ST like a square peg in a round hole.
17 hrs
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| disagree |
Douglas Galloway
: Nothing to do with geometry here
17 hrs
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| disagree |
awilliams
: This doesn't make sense - this isn't talking about curvature or geometry.
17 hrs
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| disagree |
SafeTex
: Nonsensical in English
3 days 6 hrs
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-1
18 hrs
peripheral central suburbs
...or even "outermost central suburbs"...
...might be options...
...might be options...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: ?? I'm acutely aware that the logic of human language is not exactly the same logic as in maths, still: how can anything be "peripheral" AND "central" at the same time in any language??
I get it, it's from the Humpty Dumpty school of linguistics!
4 mins
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And I'm "accutely' aware of how native English actually works....
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18 hrs
Douglas Galloway
France
France
Native in English
France
Medical translator, clinical experience
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English
mid suburbs / mid-suburbs
A bit more natural-sounding than middle suburb
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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-04-30 09:22:23 GMT)
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Depends on the context
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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-04-30 09:22:23 GMT)
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Depends on the context
Example sentence:
Ref 1: Darwin Mid Suburbs Needs Assessment
Ref 2: Anywhere out of the mid-suburbs and public transport becomes loss making.
Reference:
https://nt.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0007/362689/darwin-mid-suburbs-needs-assessment.pdf
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
writeaway
: are you really 100% sure this is the ONLY possible correct answer? That's what CL 5 indicates
1 hr
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| neutral |
ph-b (X)
: @w/a: all CL5 indicates is that the answerer is certain of his answer, not that it is the only possible answer.
2 hrs
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+1
1 day 20 hrs
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Works in field
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK)
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
25
middle-ring suburbs
This seems to be the best way of phrasing this in English, differentiating between the inner-, middle-, and outer- ring suburbs
All other answers seem to be missing a crucial word, so I finally decided to post this.
situés en moyenne couronne
located in the middle-ring suburbs.
As already noted , it's usually plural "suburbS" in English. Yes, we can talk (very rarely) of "a suburb" but in this type of context it would be plural (and there are 2 mentioned after all).
https://www.corelogic.com.au/news/where-are-the-affordable-m...
While the middle-ring suburbs may not be as desirable to some as inner-city suburbs, they still tend to be much better catered for with amenity than suburbs located further from the city centre.
The middle-ring suburbs, which we are classifying as being between 10 and 20km from the city centre, typically offer more affordable housing than the inner–city suburbs.
All other answers seem to be missing a crucial word, so I finally decided to post this.
situés en moyenne couronne
located in the middle-ring suburbs.
As already noted , it's usually plural "suburbS" in English. Yes, we can talk (very rarely) of "a suburb" but in this type of context it would be plural (and there are 2 mentioned after all).
https://www.corelogic.com.au/news/where-are-the-affordable-m...
While the middle-ring suburbs may not be as desirable to some as inner-city suburbs, they still tend to be much better catered for with amenity than suburbs located further from the city centre.
The middle-ring suburbs, which we are classifying as being between 10 and 20km from the city centre, typically offer more affordable housing than the inner–city suburbs.
3 days 7 hrs
middle-belt suburbs
Hello
I've entered this as no one has used "belt" yet it is a contender without saying it is the only solution.
All hits though seem to be from Australia
I've entered this as no one has used "belt" yet it is a contender without saying it is the only solution.
All hits though seem to be from Australia
Reference:
https://www.infilledmonton.com/research-and-articles-publishing/tag/Morphology
https://canhedance.wordpress.com/2013/05/31/indebted-once-more/
Reference comments
18 hrs
polyglot45
Native in French
&
English
Native in: English , French
Works in: English to French, French to English, German to French, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
204
Reference:
article on transport in Paris
https://halshs.archives-ouvertes.fr/halshs-01527513/document
The author uses "inner suburbs, outer suburbs and central suburbs".
Some of the English is a bit odd so use with care
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Note added at 19 hrs (2020-04-30 10:16:40 GMT)
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I mentioned this because it could be that in some circles, this termoinology is in regular use
The author uses "inner suburbs, outer suburbs and central suburbs".
Some of the English is a bit odd so use with care
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Note added at 19 hrs (2020-04-30 10:16:40 GMT)
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I mentioned this because it could be that in some circles, this termoinology is in regular use
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| neutral |
Daryo
: "central suburbs" sounds weird (to put it mildly) I would include that in the category "Some of the English is a bit odd" // a territory encased in-between two concentrical rings is hardly "central", at least not as "central" is usually understood. // yes
10 mins
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I think you mean "weird" don't you?
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Discussion
OK! il s'agit d'un train. Mais, le tracé des trains a aussi une courbure!https://web.engr.uky.edu/~jrose/RailwayIntro/Modules/Module ...
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Géographie_de_l'Île-de-France.
In spatial planning/infrastructure terms they are often less clearly defined, and this is where a moyenne couronne is sometimes introduced, the only definition I've seen being "entre l'A86 [outer ring autoroute] et la Francilienne [further out, part autoroute, part route nationale]"
Le texte original est alors un peu ambigu. La question originale concerne la notion de « moyenne couronne », qui se traduit normalement en anglais par « inner suburbs ». Toutefois, dans le cas présent, il faut établir une distinction entre « petite couronne », « moyenne couronne » et « grande couronne ». En anglais, on ne distingue généralement qu'entre « inner suburbs » et « outer suburbs ». C'est pourquoi il y a une certaine confusion quant à votre suggestion. Il semble que « middle suburbs » serait la traduction la plus appropriée.
Le texte parle du projet de deconcentration de Saclay et non de Paris. De plus, le texte ne dit pas la 'coronne centrale ou inyermediaire'
At least, this is how I understand it.
How do you know what you are talking about? How can you rebut the scientific concepts underlying the construction of a road?
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courbure_moyenne
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mean_curvature
The concept of mean crown (curvature) can be calculated!!!
These are the names give over here in France to the concentric 'rings' or Paris. Please look at Phil's references below to earlier KudoZ questions which explain the concept well.
https://langloishg.fr/2013/03/27/un-territoire-de-linnovatio...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_curve
.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/social-science-s...