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pauschalbesteuerte arbeitgeberleistungen
Läuferbahn
Dec 16, 2016 18:42
7 yrs ago
3 viewers *
German term

Nicht privat zu werden

German to English Art/Literary Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
Hello,

This is from a series of interviews with drama students.
One of the interviewees makes this comment:

Das ist eine ganz schwierige Frage, das ist ja die Krux in der ein Schauspieler lebt, finde ich, also dieses schizophrene, ich bin X aber ich spiele jetzt Kassandra und ich finde ein guter Schauspieler schafft es seine Persönlichkeit an die Rolle anzubinden aber nicht privat zu werden. Das heisst eine Figur zu lieben, eine Figur zu verteidigen und sie aber mit persönlichen Elementen anzureichern.

The concept I'm not really sure about is "nicht privat zu werden".
My rendering: "I think that a good actor manages to merge his personality with the role, but not to (---)". Could it be something like "not hold back", "not be private about something."? I have no idea.

Any input would be gratefully appreciated.

Dez
Proposed translations (English)
4 +6 without presenting your private self
3 +4 not take it home with you/get too personal about it/identify too strongly with it
3 without drifting off into a private role
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (1): Björn Vrooman

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Discussion

beermatt Dec 24, 2016:
sorry for contributing so very late... I've been involved in semi-pro theatre in Germany for many years, both in English- and in German-language productions (as an actor).
Whenever the German director or well-meaning fellow actors told me "werd nicht privat" or "das ist zu privat" they mean that I shouldn't put too much of my own character and mannerisms into a role, mostly when I wasn't concentrating properly during rehearsals, i.e. being myself and not the character I am supposed to play...

So they had to know me personally ("privat") to notice that I'm acting "privat" rather than what was expected of me as the character in the play.


So your choice of Jonnie Legg's answer is fairly appropriate, but, with acting being a very un-precise art that's very difficult to nail down to some sort of definition, elements of Ramey's and Michael's answers are just as relevant and acceptable.
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 20, 2016:
@Lonnie nope, just keeping to the question. Happy solstice!
Lonnie Legg Dec 19, 2016:
@Ramey Rieger: "*Both=our* interpretations" I "catch"--at first I thought you were referring to the opposing elements of the acting process, as reflected upon by the actor...
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 19, 2016:
@Lonnie Yours and mine - Both suggestions refer to an actor distancing her private self from the role. Your suggestion is an outward motion of the actress (not) injecting her private being into the role. My suggestion is an inward motion, the role (not) penetrating an actress's private being. Do you catch my drift?
Lonnie Legg Dec 19, 2016:
@Ramey Rieger: "*Both* interpretations"? Which two interpretations are you referring to? The distinction you point out in your comment to my entry is exactly what I'm referring to--but beyond this distinction, also separating out the "private self" that one chooses not to "werden" on stage, i.e. not to channel into the role.
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 19, 2016:
AW, C'MON Desmond! At least tell us what you DID use! The rest is academic.
Desmond Graal (asker) Dec 19, 2016:
I delivered this project on Sunday evening. If the client questions the rendering of "nicht Privat werden", I'll definitely consider using some of the other suggestions you have all thrown out there.

It was great to see people being so passionate about language! Thank you all once again for making this such a dynamic forum.
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 19, 2016:
@Björn Ah, the grammar! This leaves room for doubt, on all counts and for all suggestions. And what makes it so nebulous.
Björn Vrooman Dec 19, 2016:
As I said, I won't rule out the possibility - there's a good reason why I don't like watching interviews with actors anymore than the ones with soccer players. "Hey, the team was fantastic; everything was great; I soo could feel the connection between us..." yadiyadiyada

I just don't see it here. You'd have said something like "ich finde ein guter Schauspieler schafft es, seine Persönlichkeit an die Rolle anzubinden aber nicht im Privaten so zu agieren/werden/..." - the change of "privat" to "im Privaten" makes all the (grammatical) difference to me (and this version would have ruled out Lonnie's suggestion).

Best wishes
Ramey Rieger (X) Dec 19, 2016:
@Björn Your arguments are undeniably convincing, as good arguments should be. Still, we have two viable interpretations, and you may certainly find examples of the other way around, if you were to look for them. Nicht privat zu werden: does the role (not) penetrate your private life or do you (not) project your private life into the role? I do not believe my suggestion is written in stone, I never do, it is merely viable, as is Lonnie's. There are always other interpretations. Language lives!
Björn Vrooman Dec 19, 2016:
By far the best example:
"Über das Privatleben und wie viel ich davon preisgeben möchte. [...] Aber ich kann und möchte maedchenmitherz nicht 'führen', ohne privat zu werden."
https://maedchenmitherz.de/2014/05/16/bloggen-mit-herz-uber-...

I assume this is a case of thinking too much about a phrase (something I am guilty of a lot, I guess). The expression has little or nothing to do with acting - even in another context, its meaning remains the same.
Björn Vrooman Dec 19, 2016:
@Ramey I don't disagree with you or Kristina that what you're suggesting is something an actor should not be doing.

However, this particular German sentence does not support your interpretation; in essence, "privat werden" means either divulging information from your personal life or (possibly) getting intimate. See the examples below, e.g., about the singer (3rd link): Listeners feel that they are directly spoken to or can relate to the things he sings about; it's not some cold, distant "narration." But the singer "wird nicht privat," i.e., he's not divulging anything too personal.

Or:
"Trotzdem retteten sich Jauchs Gäste nicht in belanglose Allgemeinheiten, sie redeten von ihren persönlichen Erfahrungen, ohne dabei aber unangenehm privat zu werden"
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/tv-kritik/tv-kr...

Same meaning, different context.

[...]
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2016:
Just take a look at the preceding sentence bit:
"ich bin X aber ich spiele jetzt Kassandra"

Say, you have to play Cleopatra. Then you should become Cleopatra by studying her life. Maybe you can slip some of your own quirks into the role, but you should never act as Kassandra.

It's not about taking it home with you - what would that have for an impact on your performance? It may have an effect on your personal life, but that isn't what these drama students are being interviewed about.

I first thought about method acting ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Method_acting ), but that may not be applicable here.
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2016:
@Desmond (and @Ramey) Putting the issues with "personal and "private" aside for a moment (which are semi-false friends, as you may well know), I'd like to add that while I don't doubt Kristina's knowledge, I don't think you can answer this question by looking at what's more common in acting. Case in point: My quote below, which says "some actors preach."

In my opinion, the only way to resolve the difficulties which Armorel had with the "aber" in the second sentence is to follow Lonnie's suggestion.

Here's why:
"ein guter Schauspieler schafft es seine Persönlichkeit an die Rolle anzubinden aber nicht privat zu werden"
- i.e., a good actor can bring a bit of his personality, but not his personal life into the role

"Das heisst eine Figur zu lieben, eine Figur zu verteidigen und sie aber mit persönlichen Elementen anzureichern."
- i.e., you should really work tirelessly to assume the role you're given, but add a bit of a personal touch to it

One ex.:
"At this stage you should know who your character is, and your choice of active verbs should be informed by your character choice and not your personal choice."
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2009/may/09/character-buil...
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2016:
Here's an EN example "Some actors preach that you need to leave your personal life outside when you step onto the stage, but she is a firm believer that you can’t separate the two — that there is no character if you don’t bring your personal life into the show because you are the character."
https://dramaticarts.usc.edu/transparent-star-alexandra-bill...

Apparently, this person's opinion differs from the one of the drama student who was interviewed. But still, it can be used as an example of what's meant here.
Björn Vrooman Dec 18, 2016:
Finally I found something:
"Wir finden heraus, wie wir von uns selbst mehr fordern können, ohne in Selbstkritik zu verharren, wie wir in die Arbeit als unabhängige Künstler gelangen, ohne gegen Machtspielchen ankämpfen zu müssen, und wie es geht transparent in unserem Schauspiel zu sein, ohne unser persönliches Selbst aufzugeben und in der Arbeit privat zu werden"
http://www.actors-space.de/uploads/1/0/2/7/10277711/actors_s...

"Wie geht man damit um, ohne gleich seinen eigenen Senf dazuzugeben und privat zu werden? Das mag der Zuschauer im sogenannten „freien“ Theater nämlich gern: Wenn er - befreit vom Allgemeinwissen des Bildungsbürgertums - die Handlung ohne große Anstrengung verfolgen kann, lachen darf und alles (ALLES!) bis aufs letzte Wort sofort versteht."
http://www.echoraum.at/yorickt.htm

"Die Songs, und vor allem die Texte, tragen dabei trotzdem eindeutig Danzers Handschrift. Und die ist immer persönlich – ohne dabei allzu privat zu werden"
https://www.lustspielhaus.de/pdf/Programm-4-2005.pdf

Conclusion: It does mean that you may find some of your traits/quirks useful for a role, but you should never show your personal life/struggles on stage. Two roles.
Armorel Young Dec 16, 2016:
I'm still wrestling ... ... with the link between this sentence and the next one, which seems to be expanding on what has just been said (das heißt ...).
José Patrício Dec 16, 2016:
{but not possible to become private: although he can insert his personality in the play, that is only a play and the spectoters can't associate it to his own personality: it's purely a character and nothing else
Björn Vrooman Dec 16, 2016:
@Desmond No, I think it means you're not supposed to act like you would "im Privaten" (meaning when you're at home).

What they're trying to say is that you may "spice up" your role with some personal quirks or whatever, but you're not supposed to merge with it.

There is you, the guy who laughs a lot and drinks heavily at parties, and there is the "other you" (you in your role) who doesn't like alcohol and comes across as stiff everytime someone is celebrating something.

Proposed translations

+6
1 hr
Selected

without presenting your private self

Imo it's about preserving a professional relationship with the role instead of revealing, unfiltered, one's private self.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days20 hrs (2016-12-19 14:56:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Imo, this "nicht werden" (on stage) refers to the mental/emotional discipline of separating out the "private self" that one chooses not to channel, inadvertently or intentionally, into the role.
Peer comment(s):
agree Cilian O'Tuama : How I understand it too: without making it about you
1 hr
Thanks, Cilian.
agree Ventnai
11 hrs
Thanks, Ian.
agree Michele Fauble
1 day 15 hrs
agree Björn Vrooman : Have some trouble with the term "private self," mainly because it's used in psychology as the opposite of "public persona." I'd favor something along the lines of "bring your personal life to" (see discussion)./@Kristina More common doesn't equal correct.
1 day 15 hrs
neutral Kristina Cosumano (X) : But: acting is all about finding a part of your personality to bring into the role. To an actor, "making it about you" would be called "not acting". A more common issue is keeping that role from affecting your private life.
1 day 17 hrs
agree Thomas Pfann : I think that's the right angle. The student in the source text is saying that the actor's personality should not overpower the role they play.
1 day 18 hrs
neutral Ramey Rieger (X) : Hi Lonnie. Both interpretations are about professionalism - keeping a professional distance from the role, whether by distinguishing oneself from the character or distinguishing the character from oneself.
1 day 18 hrs
agree seehand
3 days 17 hrs
Thanks, seehand.
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
+4
18 mins

not take it home with you/get too personal about it/identify too strongly with it

The 'aber' leads me to believe it means NOT to get too involved - although, shouldn't it be dative? an der Rolle?

..to blend it in with/connect it to his/her personality, but not identify too strongly with it/not get too personal/not take it home with you.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : Some good ideas here.
23 mins
Thanks Phil.
agree Wendy Streitparth : Yes, that's how I understand it. Put what you've got into the role but don't take the role home with you.
18 hrs
We can only read into it, really...or ask the speaker.
agree Kevin Fulton : Your personality forms the role, but the role doesn't change your personality.
19 hrs
Well said, Kevin!
agree Kristina Cosumano (X) : Having some experience with this, it makes the most sense to me. It should not begin to affect your private life.
1 day 14 hrs
Yes, that's the line I'm taking.
neutral Thomas Pfann : Makes perfect sense, but is IMO the opposite of what the text says. It's not about the role overpowering the actor but about the actor's personality overpowering the role./"Der Schauspieler soll nicht privat werden". Can't see your interpretation in this.
1 day 18 hrs
It's good we have two dichotomous interpretations, hopefully, the asker can then glean from context which one applies. In both cases, it is an issue of professionalism. Hard to tell...
neutral Björn Vrooman : Agree with Thomas. I won't disagree for the simple reason that some of these interviews are like the ones soccer players give: whole lot of gibberish, no substance. But although your interpretation makes sense overall, see discussion why it doesn't here.
2 days 3 hrs
Hi Björn. These are simply two interpretations, the one internal, the other external. Do you not take it home with you, or do you not put yourself on stage?
neutral seehand : auch mit Thomas
3 days 17 hrs
Something went wrong...
17 mins

without drifting off into a private role

"..A good actor manages to bring/inject his personality into a role without drifting off into a private role..."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2016-12-16 20:52:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or:

"..without making it too personal.."

Of course, there are also people that will tell us that the secret to great acting IS in 'making it personal,' but as always, it matters where you draw the line..
https://instanonymous.com/m/BLviIVKlkGl
Something went wrong...
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