Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
...y confondre
English translation:
absorb (us) into it...
Added to glossary by
Helene Tammik
Oct 20, 2014 09:43
9 yrs ago
French term
...y confondre
French to English
Art/Literary
Cinema, Film, TV, Drama
film-making
This is a blurb about an art film, which contains very few words and is all about mood and associations.
I'm not clear what the author means by "voire nous y confondre" at the end - if it simply said "voire nous confondre" I would assume it meant "and to baffle us, confuse/confound us", or something along those lines.
The full sentence is:
"Par ce langage "hors des mots", (name of film) questionne la déroute possible vers l'"hors
civilisation", et ce qui dans cette zone peut encore retenir notre attention, voire nous y
confondre."
My attempt so far:
"With its language ‘outside words’, XXX explores the scope for veering off ‘outside civilisation’, and what there is there that could hold our attention – or even confound us."
Any other ideas? Thanks!
I'm not clear what the author means by "voire nous y confondre" at the end - if it simply said "voire nous confondre" I would assume it meant "and to baffle us, confuse/confound us", or something along those lines.
The full sentence is:
"Par ce langage "hors des mots", (name of film) questionne la déroute possible vers l'"hors
civilisation", et ce qui dans cette zone peut encore retenir notre attention, voire nous y
confondre."
My attempt so far:
"With its language ‘outside words’, XXX explores the scope for veering off ‘outside civilisation’, and what there is there that could hold our attention – or even confound us."
Any other ideas? Thanks!
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | absorb us into it... |
Adam Wilson
|
| 3 | ...entangle us into it |
Lara Barnett
|
Proposed translations
+1
23 mins
Selected
absorb us into it...
I would wait for a French native to comment on this, but the presence of 'y' made me think of the reflexive form: 'se confondre à', which has the same meaning as 'se mêler à' - when you are absorbed into something, made a part of it, disappear into it etc. This would seem to fit well with the context of the sentence and the use of 'voire' before this final verb phrase.
Note from asker:
| I had the same intuitive response to the "y" here, but couldn't figure out how to word it. I think I'll go with: "With its language ‘outside words’, XXXX examines the scope for veering off ‘outside civilisation’, and explores what could hold our attention – or even absorb us into it – there." |
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks Adam, this is what I went with in the end."
8 hrs
Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
www.lingocraft.co.uk
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish, Irish, Singaporean, UK, South African) 
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Romanian to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
32
...entangle us into it
"...hold our attention, or indeed even entangle us into it..."
An idea.
"Entangle
entangle someone or something in something
1. and entangle an animal in something Lit. ...
2. Fig. to get someone or a group involved in something. "She was trying to entangle us in her latest cause." "They entangled us in their lawsuit."
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/entangle in
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-10-20 21:09:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My suggestion is a bit of a play on the idea of the protagonist of a spy story or thriller who gets tangled up in the complicated plot as the audience/reader watches him untangle it. My idea is that as a view we can get so involved in the plot, that like the protagonist himself, we also get tangled or entangled in it.
"Pierce Brosnan entangled in a knotty spy story in ‘The November Man’"
http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/movies/29500229-421/pi...
An idea.
"Entangle
entangle someone or something in something
1. and entangle an animal in something Lit. ...
2. Fig. to get someone or a group involved in something. "She was trying to entangle us in her latest cause." "They entangled us in their lawsuit."
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/entangle in
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2014-10-20 21:09:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My suggestion is a bit of a play on the idea of the protagonist of a spy story or thriller who gets tangled up in the complicated plot as the audience/reader watches him untangle it. My idea is that as a view we can get so involved in the plot, that like the protagonist himself, we also get tangled or entangled in it.
"Pierce Brosnan entangled in a knotty spy story in ‘The November Man’"
http://www.suntimes.com/entertainment/movies/29500229-421/pi...
Note from asker:
| Thanks Lara, that's a nice suggestion too. I like the idea here of being enveloped. |
Discussion
Rather than "absorbs us into", which is too strong in that case, I would suggest "Bring us (in)to"
Of course you're right about that, but I do find this forum extremely helpful for people's gut reactions to certain words or images - as in kashew's "engloutir" and cjohnstone's comment about "accusé". These are things I never would have thought of and they set off new ideas in my head.
It's the discussion that's interesting for me, getting people's help in thinking about meanings.
Thank you all very much for engaging!
@ cjohnstone
Thanks for your comment. Can you say more about that? I didn't know there was any link between "confound" and "accusé.
J'aimerais bien en savoir plus!
J'ai déjà rendu mon texte, et finalement j'ai choisi cette formule:
With its language ‘outside words’, XXX examines the scope for veering off ‘outside civilisation’, and explores what could hold our attention – or even absorb us into it – there.
I'm sure it's not perfect but, especially in this field, I think we're allowed some poetic licence!
I haven't come up with a possibility (there are many but the French is...French). However, I just wanted to say that I agree with Tony about the need to translate"y" at the end.
Or... taking your own translation, Helene, I think you could possibly slot it in before the end by removing your first "there".
"With its language ‘outside words’, XXX explores the scope for veering off ‘outside civilisation’, and what is there that could hold our attention – or even confound us."
However, "voire" is normally used to intensify the previous word or "state" e.g. "don't do that - you could get hurt or even die".
Whereas, if I understand correctly (probably not :) ) there seems to be a contradiction in the French:
"cette zone peut encore **retenir notre attention**, voire **nous y
confondre**." I can't see an obvious link between the two starred bits.
No big deal about the title of the film, I just like to keep these things confidential as a matter of policy.
Incidentally, what's the big deal over disclosing the title of the Film?
Not sure about the meaning of 'confondre', but it might be worth bearing in mind the more literal meaning of 'muddling something up into' or 'blending into' — don't know if that's along the right lines, but it might be worth keeping an open mind ;-)