Elizabeth Kelly (asker) Oct 3, 2012:

I'm sorry Lis! I would have loved to split the points between you and Ramey but that option is still not available :(

Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 1, 2012:

you got it!
Entry text

Elizabeth Kelly (asker) Oct 1, 2012:

Sorry Alison Your post just appeared when I sent mine. So if you are all bothered by the "gainful" part, I can just go with "employed" or "in employment". What I am trying to avoid here is the "NON" (NICHT) part. And we all seem to agree that it is unnecessary.

Elizabeth Kelly (asker) Oct 1, 2012:

Thanks Ramey That's exactly my thinking. I just wanted to see if anyone could come up with a reason why I should not simplify it. Just to be sure :)

Alison MacG Oct 1, 2012:

agree with writeaway and phil (& Ramey) re gainful Gainful on its own is not sufficient to distinguish between salaried, etc. employment and self-employment. See these UK documents, for example:
Gainful employment
15010 Both employed earners and self-employed earners must be in gainful employment.
15011 An employment should be regarded as gainful if a person is
1. engaged in it with a desire, hope and intention of obtaining remuneration or profit in return for services or efforts or
2. is in fact paid for the services performed, whether or not there was any desire, hope or intention of obtaining remuneration.
http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/dmgch15.pdf
and http://www.dwp.gov.uk/docs/uc-draft-regs-2012.pdf (Ch 2 Earned income 57. Gainful self-employment)
Definitions explained
Gainful Employment and Gainfully Employed
Working for at least 16 hours per week under a contract of employment and receiving a salary or wage.
Gainful Self Employment and Gainfully Self Employed
Working for profit for at least 16 hours per week (either alone or with others) and being liable to pay Income Tax and National Insurance Contributions.
http://www.legalandgeneral.com/library/protection/technical-...

Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 1, 2012:

Hi Elizabeth I'd keep it simple, too. On US and German tax forms either you're employed or self-employed. We are ALL gainfully employed as long as we're making money, the only difference I can see is the "self", which is clarifying in it's "self"(employed) or not. This guy is NOT. He's, or she's, merely employed or salaried.

Elizabeth Kelly (asker) Oct 1, 2012:

@phil and writeaway .. yes, but for tax purposes the Irish Revenue, for instance, distinguishes between income from employment or self-employment. I am just trying not to make it more complicated than it needs to be, at the same time ensuring that I do not leave out an important detail. So, do you think it might be misunderstood if it's left as just "employed as"? Thanks for all the input so far!

Lis Liesicke Oct 1, 2012:

yes too

Ramey Rieger (X) Oct 1, 2012:

Yes but you can variate on the theme.

Elizabeth Kelly (asker) Oct 1, 2012:

Thanks Lis and Ramey and peers... .. so you all agree that I should stick with the "gainful employment" option rather than highlighting the "NON"-self-employment part, right?