Glossary entry

Russian term or phrase:

отнести к компетенции

English translation:

which fall under the authority of

Added to glossary by Irina Mestergazi
Feb 27, 2012 10:23
12 yrs ago
9 viewers *
Russian term

отнести к компетенции

Russian to English Law/Patents Law (general)
В соответствии с ч. 8 ст. 37 Закона «Об обществах с ограниченной ответственностью», решения о реорганизации или ликвидации общества принимаются всеми участниками единогласно; решение об изменении устава и уставного капитала принимается большинством голосов в 2/3 от общего числа голосов; прочие решения, отнесенные законом или уставом к компетенции общего собрания принимаются простым большинством (если большее число не предусмотрено уставом).

Discussion

David Knowles Feb 27, 2012:
remit "remit" as a noun in the UK (with stress on first syllable) certainly means "area of responsibility", but I think it does in the US as well. As a verb (with stress on second syllable), it means "to send back" in a legal sense, but simply "to send money" in a bureaucratic sense (as in remittance, meaning payment). I must admit that (looking at the full Oxford English Dictionary) the words have a bewildering collection of meanings, especially the verb!
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
remit вот еще что попалось: http://www.translegal.com/great-divide/remit
Cannot verify the part re. American usage (being on the other side of the pond) :)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
и так уже 5 ответов имеется :) думаю, шестой будет излишним. Спасибо за поддержку, Анжела. Кстати о 'remit' - хитрый очень термин, так как у него несколько значений в юридическом контексте http://www.thefreedictionary.com/remit
Angela Greenfield Feb 27, 2012:
Надежда +1 Я поддерживаю Надежду. Она юрист и переводчик. А это немаловажно. Согласна таже с тем, что Charter стали совать куда надо и куда не надо. Клиентов нужно образовывать. Я лично, не стесняясь, образовываю. :-) Нравится мне ваша структура с remit. Очень хорошо звучит в ам.англ. Пожалуйста, повесьте свой ответ, чтобы я могла его поддержать.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
согласен, но обычно подписывают, что бы потом ратифицировать, а иначе грош этой подписе цена.
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
международные договоры кас. ратификации / присоединения. Опять надо смотреть в контексте каждой страны. Зачастую "ратифицировать" - означает принятие отдельных НПА для утверждения международного договора (то есть, зачастую факт подписания не есть ратификация)
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Извиняйте перепутал Articles of Asscoation с Articles of Agreement)
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
кстати мульитран переводит AOA как устав акциоерного общества
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
присоединиться значит ратифицировать, или же я уже ничего не смыслю)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
кстати, Вы не могли бы привести примеры таких "публичных/международно-правовых" документов (i.e. Articles of Association в международно-правовом (публичном) контексте?) Любопытно было бы взглянуть.
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
присоединиться или ратифицировать? так ведь на то у Вас и контекст, мы же думающие люди и не переводим все "под единую кальку". Я как раз об этом и говорю - если у Вас акционерная компания в чистом виде - какая "хартия"=устав???
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
по моему опыту он не всегда устав, потому что государство не может примкнуть к уставу, а к соглашению может.
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
предвосхищая Ваш следующий вопрос: Memorandum - как правило - это учредительный договор (потому так и перевожу в большинстве случаев, опять же в заисимости от типа юридического лица, наличия иных учредительных документов и содержания Memorandum)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
мнение, действительно, мое :) потому и "имхо". Articles - в 99% случаев перевожу как "устав" (иногда как "учредительный документ" в зависимости от типа юридического лица, содержания Articles и Memorandum, того, есть ли Memorandum, есть ли еще учредительные документы и т.д.)
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
возможно, но опять же это ваше мнение, а как вы переводите Articles of Association?
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
и что доказать-то? :) В ООН потому и говорится про Сharter, а не Articles.
то есть сначала идет Charter, потом Statute - то есть, законодательный акт, на основании которого учреждено юридической лицо, далее идут учредительные документы для чисто коммерческих юридических лиц. Потому, imho, выбор термин Charter для АО не самый подходящий
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
я бы предложила дочитать текст (пройти по ссылке ниже) - любопытные наблюдения изложены
Oleg Osipov Feb 27, 2012:
@ Dave It'll be the never-ending fight with global bureaucratic heaviness, then. :)
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
мир прогрессирует, спасибо за экскурсию в историю)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
interesting discussion re. origin of the "charter" http://www.lingvoda.ru/forum/actualthread.aspx?tid=5458&pg=-...
[0] "Скорая помощь" - правовые и бизнес-термины - FAQs
V. 16 июл 07, 13:06
Опять же, на практике закрепился перевод Charter.
И это нормально. Все уже привыкли.
Просто надо осознанно понимать, что ИСКОННО charter в англо-саксонском праве - это никакой не "устав", а скорее "Грамота", т.е. лицензия, разрешение (исторически даровавшееся монархом). (Монголы еще в свое время сказали бы "ярлык"). На каком-то этапе ведь это так и было - юрлица создавались в разрешительном порядке, в каждом отдельном случае требовалось высочайшее монаршее повеление, "пожалование" .......
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
что и требовалось доказать)
David Knowles Feb 27, 2012:
Client's preferences Usually you have to go with what the client wants, unless it's just plain wrong, and that applies particularly to a series of translations that need to be consistent.

However, looking back at the answers, I still like my original suggestion "are the responsibility"! It's far less cumbersome, and I don't think that it loses any meaning, particularly in this context.

I do like to reduce the bureaucratic heaviness of Russian where possible!
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
no worries
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
it's Nadya, thank you :) I've already pointed out that it comes before statute - do you think it's a coincidence? - please read my earlier post again re. statute, charter
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Sorry, Nadezhda)
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Natalya I got this from your link
If the company is registering its first UK establishment, it must also deliver to Companies House the following additional documents:

a certified copy of the company’s constitutional documents (e.g. charter, statute, memorandum and articles of association etc) with a certified translation in English if the original is in a language other than English;
So, you can use it for commercial entities
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
client's preferences well an example of client's preferences that I came across once was having "work book" used for the term трудовая книжка :)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
charter I am well aware that "charter" is widely used not just by Russian-English (vice versa) translators but the term charter as (initially) granted by royal power or another authority has a slightly different connotation. e.g. here http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/about/gbhtml/gpo1.shtml you can indeed find that charter is mentioned alongside with other constitutional documents however it is listed before statute - these two documents or even acts are commonly used for public companies and international organisations and institutions.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Agree with Oleg
Oleg Osipov Feb 27, 2012:
Charter vs. Articles of Association Depends, in a way, on the client's preferences. :)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
American English :) In my experience it has nothing to do with being an American translator. If you look at what constitutional documents are called in the UK you'll find the same Articles/Memorandum of Association. If it were the UN, orindeed a city ("a city charter"), etc. I'd agree but in my personal opinion Articles works better.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
To Nadezhda If the UN has a charter that doesn't imply that a legal entity may not have the same.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
ok, your preferences are clear now
David Knowles Feb 27, 2012:
To Akhmadovi I could live with "fall within the competence" but not "include within the competency". However "remit" or "authority" is far more natural.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
David, my mistake ackowledged, but you didn't like competence either)
David Knowles Feb 27, 2012:
remit I'd be happy with "fall within the remit", and could live with "competence", but not "competency"!
As for charter/articles of association, I prefer "charter", just as I prefer oblast or OOO, but I have noticed a tendency for US translators to use "articles of association". I draw the line at "by-laws".
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
BTW, thank you for supporting competence, even though David doesn't like it.
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Nadezhda you are one good archeologist))
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
in the meantime re, the translation I think
falling within the remit/power/authority/competence of the general meeting would work - will post the links below in the reference section
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Are you certain that there is an exact division in terms of the word in question when it comes to international organisations and legal entities?
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
let me dig something out re. charter, bear with me
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
I have nothing against articles of association, my point is you might as well use charter here.
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
компетенция "matters falling within the remit of the ..." (if the your target audience is British)
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
let's discuss why :) what would be your arguments in favour of using the "charter" when it comes to commercial legal entities? and arguments against "Articles of Associaltion" if you please?
Ilham Ahmadov Feb 27, 2012:
Nadejda, not necessarily.
Nadezhda Kirichenko Feb 27, 2012:
Charter? I'd suggest Articles of Association. "Charter" would work in the context of international organisations for example.

Proposed translations

+2
34 mins
Selected

which fall under the authority of

/
Peer comment(s):

agree Ilham Ahmadov : I like it
1 min
Thanks!
agree Natalya Sogolovsky
1 hr
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Спасибо всем!"
1 min

which are to be carried out

...
Something went wrong...
11 mins

prescribed by the law or the charter to be included in the competency of the general meeting

prescribed by the law or the charter to be included in the competency of the general meeting
Peer comment(s):

neutral David Knowles : This is a literal translation, but not the way it would be expressed in English.
4 mins
Something went wrong...
14 mins

which are the responsibility of

which, by law or under the charter, are the responsibility of a general meeting...

I definitely wouldn't use "competence" in English
Peer comment(s):

neutral Ilham Ahmadov : David, I've come accross of and even translated agreements which frequently use the word competency in this sence
14 mins
Something went wrong...
+2
56 mins

within the competence

...falling within the competence of the General Meeting by virtue of...
Peer comment(s):

agree Jack Doughty
6 mins
Спасибо.
agree vita z
19 mins
Спасибо.
Something went wrong...
1 day 19 hrs

falling ... under the power of

falling by law or the the Articles of Association under the power of a General Meeting
Example sentence:

...cases falling by law under their jurisdiction

Something went wrong...

Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

power/competence/remit/responsibility

http://www.un.org/en/documents/charter/chapter10.shtml

Charter of the United Nations <-- that's when you use "Charter" :)

Functions and Powers
Article 62
...
...
# It may prepare draft conventions for submission to the General Assembly, with respect to matters falling within its competence.

EU context:

http://europa.eu/legislation_summaries/justice_freedom_secur...

The ECJ accepted the request. The judgment clarifies the distribution of powers between the first and third pillars as regards provisions of criminal law even though, as a general rule, criminal law does not fall within the Community's competence.

Scottish Parliament
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/About/Sewel/SessionThree

85. Climate Change Bill:

"That the Parliament endorses the principle of introducing for the UK as a whole statutory targets and a related framework for action to mitigate climate change by reducing carbon dioxide emissions as set out in the Climate Change Bill, introduced to the House of Lords on 14 November 2007, and agrees that the provisions in the Bill which fall within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament should be considered by the UK Parliament."


Financial Reporting Review Panel
http://www.frc.org.uk/frrp/faqs/

Can I speak to someone at the Panel?

* You can call to check if a matter is likely to fall within the Panel's remit, but a written explanation will avoid misunderstanding.


Equality and Human Rights Commission

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality_and_Human_Rights_Commi...

The Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) is a non-departmental public body in Great Britain which was established by the Equality Act 2006 and came into being on 1 October 2007. The Commission has responsibility for the promotion and enforcement of equality and non-discrimination laws in England, Scotland and Wales. It took over the responsibilities of three former commissions: the Commission for Racial Equality, the Equal Opportunities Commission (which dealt with gender equality) and the Disability Rights Commission. It also has responsibility for other aspects of equality: age, sexual orientation and religion or belief. As a national human rights institution, it seeks to promote and protect human rights in Great Britain (with the exception of matters falling within the remit of the Scottish Human Rights Commission, SHRC).


http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=matters falling wit...

Q. What about devolved administrations? Why is the power not applicable?
A. Devolved administrations are part of the UK Administration and are responsible for observing and implementing EU obligations that concern devolved matters. Should the UK ever be fined in relation to an infraction, there is an agreement between all the administrations that devolved administrations would pay for any proportion of the penalty which relates to a matter falling within their responsibility. For this reason, there is no need for the power to apply to devolved administrations and it does not do so.
Something went wrong...
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