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ковролит
Nov 26, 2008 19:39
15 yrs ago
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Russian term

а у вас негров президентами выбирают

May offend Russian to English Art/Literary Journalism
I am trying to determine the level of neutrality of the term "негр". There are several ways to translate it into English, but I want to know the author's intent in Russian. Here are the English variants:
1) black man or African American: neutral in English.
2) negro: outdated in American English, now considered politically incorrect and probably offensive.
3) nigger: extremely offensive in American English.

Here are several sentences where the Russian is used:

"Белые империалисты, которые выбрали негра своим президентом, – как-то с трудом воспринимаются в качестве надменных империалистов «в пробковых шлемах и со стэком»."

"Просто к списку их преступлений, наряду с «а у вас негров линчуют», добавилось (не упраздняя старое!) еще одно – «а у вас негров президентами выбирают!» "
Proposed translations (English)
4 'black man' for the first instance, 'nigger' for the second
4 +1 black (UK)/African American (US)
5 afircan american race
4 black man
5 -1 coloured people/coloured men

Discussion

Pavel Tikunov Nov 27, 2008:
Выражение периода середины прошлого века, перевод был бы negro, вполне вежливое слово для той эпохи. В других местах у автора многоголосие, чего стоит, хоть и в кавычках, «негродеятельность», "не только черные, но и желтые".
Yelena Pestereva Nov 27, 2008:
Angela is absolutely right.
Angela Greenfield Nov 26, 2008:
Niles, I don't think Russians are racist (at least not towards blacks). The word негр is very rarely used in a derogatory sense. At the same time, and quite on the contrary to what it is in the US, the word “black” IS derogatory (as Konstantin quite correctly noticed). If a Russian wants to be truly nasty he/she would use “ченые” or “черножопые”.
N Watterson (X) (asker) Nov 26, 2008:
Mark and Konstantin - according to other articles I have read, "а у вас негров линьчуют" is a phrase that was commonly used by Russian diplomats during the cold war. When American diplomats would criticize the USSR for anything, the Russians could always fall back on "а у вас негров линьчуют." The difficulty in translating these phrases (there are many uses of the term негр in the article) is trying to understand the level of innate racism in Russian society, in the target audience, and in the author. Konstantin makes a good point that there are other ways to convey racist terminology, but I also like Mark's idea of changing the meaning with context. Tough decision. If you would like to read the whole article for more context, just google the phrases I have posted already. It's a pretty interesting article about the US election, Obama, and Russia's perspective.
Konstantin Kisin Nov 26, 2008:
Alex, please stop spamming the "ask for clarification" box with what are additions to your answer. You can add notes to your answer with the "Add note" button, as you well know. Thank you.
Alexander Onishko Nov 26, 2008:
http://www.referatbank.ru/download.php?unit_id=6251&inc=jkf9...
Alexander Onishko Nov 26, 2008:
В английском языке слово Negro считается политически некорректным, поэто- му предпочтение отдается терминам Black и Afro-American. В русском языке, на- против, слово негр нейтрально, а черный имеет негативную коннотацию.
Alexander Onishko Nov 26, 2008:
"Для сравнения возьмем слово "негр". В русском языке нет той коннотации какая придается этому слову в США. "

http://forum.sem40.ru/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1309&start=50

Proposed translations

9 mins
Selected

'black man' for the first instance, 'nigger' for the second

The first time around the term isn't meant to be offensive at all, whereas the lynching reference is probably meant to typify old-school southern racism that would certainly use 'nigger.' As such, I think it should certainly remain in the "updated" version.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Konstantin Kisin : "а у вас негров линьчуют" sounds like criticism to me, therefore I don't think whoever is making that criticism would be interested in being racist him/herself...++ Also true :D
8 mins
True, but at the same time, they're also calling electing a black man a 'crime' to go alongside lynching. I don't know if it is meant in jest or what, maybe Nigel can fill us in on the overall tone of this piece.
agree boostrer : In the second sentence, I can see an ironic opposition "black" (1st instance) vs. "nigger" (2nd). The first example should have "black".
34 mins
Thank you, boostrer.
disagree Ethan Bien : agree w/ konstantin and nikolai-- the use of any slur in either phrase is totally gratuitous and unfounded, unless the greater context can support it in some way.
71 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
4 mins

black man

the word "негр" is neutral in Russian, and in this sentence too
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+1
5 mins

black (UK)/African American (US)

Негр is a fairly neutral word in Russian, with negative connotations usually added through the use of other words (primarily descriptive adjectives).

There are also offensive alternatives, which would normally be used if a derogatory meaning was intended.
Peer comment(s):
agree Alexander Alexandrov
1 day 4 hrs
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1 hr

afircan american race

While Americans no longer use the word "negroe" to classify the African American race the Russians still do. In my opinion the answer to your question is #2. When I went to Russian school we learned the black race with the word негр however no racial bias was meant by it.

However this word can be used as a racial slur so the context is very important here. In this particular example it is unlikely that a racial slur was implied, however there are many other instances where that is not always the case.
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-1
10 hrs

coloured people/coloured men

It is how blacks prefer to call themselves nowdays.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 hrs (2008-11-27 06:31:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This definition (coloured people) came from SA, then spread over US, and europeans started to use it widely later.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day1 hr (2008-11-27 20:46:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the group of "coloured people" are: Blacks,Pakistani,Mexicans.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Mark Berelekhis : 'It is how blacks prefer to call themselves nowdays' -- I promise you - you could NOT be more wrong.
10 hrs
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