This question was closed without grading. Reason: Answer found elsewhere
Feb 6, 2020 09:31
4 yrs ago
18 viewers *
Russian term
бытность без хозрасчёта
Russian to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
From a gulag memoir:
Служащие Управления, как я уже упоминала, получали зар-плату, на которую прожить всё же было можно, а в ***бытность без хозрасчёта*** - получали пайку в 500 граммов хлеба, с чем тоже «прожить» было можно, при сидячей работе, не требующей физических сил.
Служащие Управления, как я уже упоминала, получали зар-плату, на которую прожить всё же было можно, а в ***бытность без хозрасчёта*** - получали пайку в 500 граммов хлеба, с чем тоже «прожить» было можно, при сидячей работе, не требующей физических сил.
Proposed translations
(English)
4 +3 | in times of no cost accounting | Michael Korovkin |
3 -2 | in (in times of) non-working business | Turdimurod Rakhmanov |
Proposed translations
-2
2 hrs
in (in times of) non-working business
Я бы использовал немножко простой вариант in (in times of) non-working business
или еще если подходит
in times of barter business
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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-02-06 12:24:55 GMT)
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Потому что в контексте используется простые слова, кто то рассказывает.
или еще если подходит
in times of barter business
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Note added at 2 hrs (2020-02-06 12:24:55 GMT)
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Потому что в контексте используется простые слова, кто то рассказывает.
Peer comment(s):
disagree |
Boris Shapiro
: To talk about business or businesses in the mid 20th century Soviet Union is absurd. These office workers were not engaging in 'barter business'. / Mighty fine of you to overrule my by the sheer colossal authority of your opinion, eh?
2 hrs
|
Eh, Boris, Boris! Business doesn't only mean what you know! Business is business.
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disagree |
The Misha
: This is not what it says, and frankly, this is even more confusing than "cost accounting". It is simply not quite in English.
3 hrs
|
What I want to say here is we should translate meanings not words as you say. The meaning as I understand here is what I suggested. Non-working business means when you get something in exchange of what you did or what you gave in a simple way to say.
|
+3
30 mins
in times of no cost accounting
...
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Note added at 37 mins (2020-02-06 10:08:08 GMT)
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actually, you an say simply "in times of no payroll"
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Note added at 37 mins (2020-02-06 10:08:20 GMT)
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can
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Note added at 3 days 2 hrs (2020-02-09 11:38:21 GMT)
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Tatiana, I'm not crazy about this translation either.
Granted it's not a technical translation, I suppose you should be relatively free to improvise. There are many alternatives. "... and when we started being paid in kind", or even (that's what I'd put) "... and when the salaries became irrelevant"
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Note added at 37 mins (2020-02-06 10:08:08 GMT)
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actually, you an say simply "in times of no payroll"
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Note added at 37 mins (2020-02-06 10:08:20 GMT)
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can
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Note added at 3 days 2 hrs (2020-02-09 11:38:21 GMT)
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Tatiana, I'm not crazy about this translation either.
Granted it's not a technical translation, I suppose you should be relatively free to improvise. There are many alternatives. "... and when we started being paid in kind", or even (that's what I'd put) "... and when the salaries became irrelevant"
Peer comment(s):
agree |
mrrafe
18 mins
|
Thanks!
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agree |
Frank Szmulowicz, Ph. D.
2 hrs
|
Thanks, Frank
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agree |
esperantisto
2 hrs
|
Thank you!
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neutral |
The Misha
: Erm... no. Kindly see what I wrote above. Cheers, Michael. Long time no see
5 hrs
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Hi. I'll look now
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Discussion
Secondly, no translator is under an obligation to 'render things as they are' (which is impossible, come to think of it).
As for 'describing the historical context as accurately as possible', that should not be the aim of a translator either, otherwise we would have period books festooned with uncalled-for parentheses and footnotes. You seem like a технический переводчик to me, imposing your particular mindset on the world of literary translation.
So, no, I do not recognise my profession what you're saying, not by a long shot.
Nothing more. It would be correct.
by Non-working business the author meant his own opinion and understanding about the planned economy of the Soviet Union. The reader should clearly understand that it is a khozraschet which belongs to the planned economy of the Soviets.
If you say, Boris and the Misha, per piece pay the reader will think that it was before the per piece pay system had been introduced which is confusing. It is not only misleading, but it would loose the sense of the context given.
The Asker should find something which describes the "cost accounting" and the planned economy of the Soviet Union. (not with financial and economic terms)
If you can't find anything, you may leave it as it is "khozraschet" that mrrafe suggested.
Using "cost accounting" is not a crazy thing, and it is better that other pure English suggestions. If you are looking pure English ones that pure English people speak, you can't find that as it belongs to the Soviet system.
As for "cashless economy", I'd be extra careful because nowadays the term is used mostly for the economy relying on electronic forms of payment, such as credit cards, etc. One risks being grossly misunderstood.
You made zero effort to prove that the random fragment of a private letter your cited had any bearing on the subject at hand, besides its coming from the same general setting. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the whole concept of argument?
Non-working business means the business that doesn't work, in other words a cashless economy situation.
Besides, the context is from a gulag memoir,
Do you think they use per piece pay or economy things?
You will use it in your academic papers.
For ex, in this kind of texts, you can use barter (when it is relevant), because there is a barter economy (ec. term) and barter can be used in our every day speech (general term). We should use the latter. I hope now it is clear for you if you are a translator.
If you are a pure English speaker, but not a translator, who tries to explain which is English, which is not, then machine is better than you.
The source speaks of two situations (time periods): before X and under X.
X is described as a cash economy situation.
Before X is described as a cashless economy situation.
You're citing a letter allegedly calling the latter (the cashless economy situation, the opposite of X) a 'non-working business' (a phrase, incidentally, described by a naturalised, if not native, speaker as having zero sense).
How in Middle-earth is that phrase relevant to the FORMER, the X, the хозрасчёт situation?
I sincerely thought formal logic transcended language barriers, but your case proves me wrong.
What the Misha suggested is not much different from the direct translation. He could not properly rephrase it. Per piece pay and cost accounting are almost the same thing.
There should be something else.
2. When salaries are paid, there is a payroll and of corse cost accounting as far as the remuneration for the work done. Subsequently, the workers purchase theit bread and whatnot.
3. When the economy becomes money-less – usually in war time, three-figure-a-month inflation and other big calamities – there is no longer any cost accounting/payrolling, and the workers are no longer paid in cash but either in food vouchers or simply in kind. That is, they get their fixed share of bread directly.
I hope this helps the Asker, after all.
They got bread in exchange of their work, and they used to exchange (barter) something for bread or bread for something.
https://books.google.kg/books?id=7VG7CgAAQBAJ&pg=PA114&lpg=P...
Translate meanings, not words.
Now, ask yourself if you are translating a memoir - a piece of literature, really, that hopefully someone would want to read one day - or a profit and loss statement? You absolutely need to rephrase here - and you already did, in the additional context you provided. You said they used to be just given a ration, and then suddenly these folks started to get as
It should be rendered as simple as possible. If we leave it in RU as it is even with an expl. notes, I think we loose its simplicity. In the lang, everything could have its closest equivalent.