Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

I think we're not communicating.

Sina Salehi Dec 10, 2018:

Mr. Mousavi, the fact that our translations may be somehow similar does not mean that they are copy paste. I had seen this phrase with the part "harmful association" in a marriage certificae. Also, I have just provided the term needed and nothing more. Harmful association and misconduct is a fixed expression and there is no problem with it as a unit.

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

Mr. Salehi, the only difference between your suggestion and mine is that you have replaced bad with harmful. Pay attention that you have to provide translation only for the segment the asker has mentioned. However, you can translate the whole context in the explanation part.

Mr. Mostafaei, I'm not saying that general dictionaries cannot be consulted at all. The point is that these two words here are "technical" terms, and for accurately translating technical terms, especially legal ones, we have to make sure they are technically defined. Suppose you're looking for an equivalent for "invisibility" in a text related to Translation Studies. You would go for a technical dictionary/entry or a general one?

Younes Mostafaei Dec 10, 2018:

And one more thing. If you notice, almost all books on methodologies and principles of translation quote valid general dictionaries like Oxford, Webster or Merriam-Webster, to include some. Please refer to the book "literary translation" or Saedi's book on translation. You'll see that they use general dictionaries to give and distinguish meanings.

Younes Mostafaei Dec 10, 2018:

General dictionaries are among the most valuable resources. They are complied by the elite. Take OALD, Webster, Collins, etc. as an example. Well, I guess every translator should consult general and specialized dictionaries. They are both valid sources.

And we should know that dictionaries are not updated every year. In case a dictionary like OALD is updated every 10 years, it will be considered a frequently-updated dictionary. Please note that revised version are not the focus here. So you might even have dictionaries which are updated every 20 or 25 years.

Sina Salehi Dec 10, 2018:

Actually, my main reference was a marriage certificate which I don't have access to now. However, it should be considered that sometimes sense and reasoning plus general dictionaries can suffice if you have some sort of background in the field.

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

This is not being "pedantic." Even general English dictionaries are not used by "professional" translators for figuring out the exact meaning of technical words, simply because they are not designed to do so. Now, you're relying on a general Persian dictionary piled up half a century ago? I assume this is very basic knowledge among us translators.

Sina Salehi Dec 10, 2018:

I see. So pedantic you are. But don't you think that legal words have their roots within dictionaries, sense, and reasoning?

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

I guess these are not considered as valid. Such explanations should be given from a legal point of view.

Sina Salehi Dec 10, 2018:

https://dictionary.abadis.ir/fatofa/رفتار/
http://www.vajehyab.com/dehkhoda/معاشرت
می بینید که معاشرت به معنی هم زیستی است و در نتیجه سو معاشرت مربوط به رفتار شما در یک بافت اجتماعی است اما سو رفتار می تواند رفتارهای فردی نیز باشد.

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

Mr. Salehi, thanks, but I insist I know what these English words mean.

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

Thank you for your explanation, Mr. Mostafaei. However, I was directly quotating from Tawangar's book. Indeed, my suggestion was based on his book. Again, I was particularly curious to know the difference in Persian not English. What is the difference between سومعاشرت and سورفتار in Persian context. I would appreciate it you could provide references.

Sina Salehi Dec 10, 2018:

Behavior refers to your individual actions which may include a variety of actions, but conduct is your behavior in a specific context such as marriage. So, misconduct seems to be more formal and specific and should be rendered as سو معاشرت which is more formal in Farsi.

Younes Mostafaei Dec 10, 2018:

سوءرفتار captures "misbehaviour" in the target. "misconduct" offers a more generic term covering both. Hoshang Tavangar and Rahim Aslanzadeh use the term "misconduct". This has become a standard term in English.

Sajad Mousavi Dec 10, 2018:

Does anyone knows the difference between سومعاشرت and سورفتار? Because I have seen this phrase in Dr. Tawangar's book, and it was rendered as "bad association and misconduct." Are they really the same, meaning one of them is redundant?