Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Italian term or phrase:
omeni selvadeghi
English translation:
uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)
Added to glossary by
xlationhouse
Jan 8, 2007 13:44
17 yrs ago
1 viewer *
Italian term
United States
6 yrs as a translator; 15 yrs in TR mgt
Native in: English
Works in: French to English, Italian to English
omeni selvadeghi
Italian to English
Art/Literary
Folklore
For an article in a tourist magazine about the Clock Tower in St. Mark's Square, Venice. The term, among others, is used to describe the "Moors" that strike the great bell on the hour with hammers.
From the few occurrences I could find (see links below), I guess these are sort of mythological, or imaginary, figures. Is this dialect? (I don't think it's Latin.) Here is the context:
Intanto, nella pancia della Torre, la macchina di Rainieri macina minuti ore giorni anni secoli; i due automi di bronzo – omeni selvadeghi, schiavi, progenitori come Caino e Abele? – incatenati alla loro ciclopica piastra di pietra annunciano al mondo lo scorrere delle ore, l’avvicendarsi delle stagioni...
http://www.aprisogni.it/laboratori/batarprimavera.html
http://thuler.net/phorum/read.php?1,2344,2344,quote=1
http://www.tellusfolio.it/index.php?prec=/index.php&cmd=v&le...
From the few occurrences I could find (see links below), I guess these are sort of mythological, or imaginary, figures. Is this dialect? (I don't think it's Latin.) Here is the context:
Intanto, nella pancia della Torre, la macchina di Rainieri macina minuti ore giorni anni secoli; i due automi di bronzo – omeni selvadeghi, schiavi, progenitori come Caino e Abele? – incatenati alla loro ciclopica piastra di pietra annunciano al mondo lo scorrere delle ore, l’avvicendarsi delle stagioni...
http://www.aprisogni.it/laboratori/batarprimavera.html
http://thuler.net/phorum/read.php?1,2344,2344,quote=1
http://www.tellusfolio.it/index.php?prec=/index.php&cmd=v&le...
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men) |
Raffaella Panigada
|
| 4 | rough men |
Rita Bilancio
|
| 3 +1 | explanation |
Chiara Righele
|
| 4 | savages/savage men |
Rosanna Palermo
|
Proposed translations
+2
5 mins
Raffaella Panigada
Switzerland
Switzerland
Native in Italian
Works in field
Switzerland
Professional, reliable, always on time
Native in: Italian 
Works in: English to Italian, French to Italian, Italian to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Selected
uomini selvatici (wild/barbaric men)
I am not sure they are mythological figures, but this is the dialect form of "uomini selvatici", "barbaric/wild/uneducated men",a an expression that can very well apply to the Moors as seen by their Venetian enemies.
Hope this helps
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Note added at 22 hrs (2007-01-09 12:01:12 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad I could help.
Raffaella
Hope this helps
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Note added at 22 hrs (2007-01-09 12:01:12 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad I could help.
Raffaella
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
cocotier
: ...yes but I would avoid "barbaric" which applies to (old) nordic people
52 mins
|
|
Grazie, cocotier. Secondo quando mi ricordo io i Romani chiamavano "barbaro" chiunque non appartenesse al loro popolo, non mi sembra un'opzione da scartare a priori.
|
|
| agree |
Vladimir Micic
54 mins
|
|
Grazie, Vladimir!
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks to everyone! I ended up keeping the term in dialect with "wild men" in parentheses."
18 mins
Rita Bilancio
Native in Italian
Dire quasi la stessa cosa
Native in: Italian
Works in: English to Italian, German to Italian, French to Italian
rough men
Of course: it's Venetian dialect.
Seems like they don't know what gentle manners are...
I hope you'll uderstand my explanation
Seems like they don't know what gentle manners are...
I hope you'll uderstand my explanation
+1
19 mins
explanation
"omeni selvadeghi" is a dialect expressions (I'm from Veneto, so I'm sure), that literally translated into Italian means "uomini selvatichi/selvaggi" (kind of "wild men")
The adjective "selvatico" is often used with plants (or animals) that grow without human care or intervention
"omeni selvadeghi" usually refers to people that are not completely into society, they're maybe careless, maybe shabby and so on... They could live in the woods, and so be associated to elfs and spirits in the popular tradition, but I think in your text it mainly refers to the fact they are "physical men" (they're "automi, schiavi"), they're close to animals, they're only important because of their hammering on the bell...
That's how I understand it.
Hope it helps
Good luck, Chiara
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Note added at 21 mins (2007-01-08 14:05:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
obviously "uomini selvatici" - sorry for the typo, it was the influence of dialect!!!
The adjective "selvatico" is often used with plants (or animals) that grow without human care or intervention
"omeni selvadeghi" usually refers to people that are not completely into society, they're maybe careless, maybe shabby and so on... They could live in the woods, and so be associated to elfs and spirits in the popular tradition, but I think in your text it mainly refers to the fact they are "physical men" (they're "automi, schiavi"), they're close to animals, they're only important because of their hammering on the bell...
That's how I understand it.
Hope it helps
Good luck, Chiara
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 mins (2007-01-08 14:05:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
obviously "uomini selvatici" - sorry for the typo, it was the influence of dialect!!!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Lucia Colombo
: living in the same region, speaking the same dialect
1 hr
|
|
thanks colomba
|
3 hrs
Rosanna Palermo
Native in Italian
&
English
Accuracy matters - La precisione conta
Native in: Italian 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: Italian to English
savages/savage men
From dictionary.com:
sav·age Listen: [ svj ]
adj.
Not domesticated or cultivated; wild: savage beasts of the jungle.
Not civilized; barbaric: a savage people.
Ferocious; fierce: in a savage temper.
Savage \Sav"age\, n.
1. A human being in his native state of rudeness; one who is
untaught, uncivilized, or without cultivation of mind or
manners.
Vicious or merciless; brutal: a savage attack on a political rival. See Synonyms at cruel.
Lacking polish or manners; rude.
n.
A person regarded as primitive or uncivilized.
A person regarded as brutal, fierce, or vicious.
A rude person; a boor.
Discussion