Feb 16, 2015 19:01
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
Fast and Accurate
Native in: English
Works in: Russian to English, French to English, Italian to English, and 1 more.
comme en puissance
French to English
Social Sciences
Philosophy
From a text on Plato's political philosophy:
Le philosophe se fera donc politique par obligation et parce que son naturel philosophe, développé et renforcé par des années d’apprentissage loin des affaires humaines, semble comprendre, ****comme en puissance***, la science du gouvernement.
Le philosophe se fera donc politique par obligation et parce que son naturel philosophe, développé et renforcé par des années d’apprentissage loin des affaires humaines, semble comprendre, ****comme en puissance***, la science du gouvernement.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +1 | [as if] in a latent (potential) state |
Melissa McMahon
|
| 4 +1 | virtually includes / encompasses as if in virtuality |
Francis Marche
|
| 2 | latent mastery of the science of government |
YorickJenkins
|
Proposed translations
+1
1 hr
Melissa McMahon
Australia
Australia
Native in English
Specializes in field
Australia
Related KudoZ points
:
86
Selected
[as if] in a latent (potential) state
"En puissance" has the sense of "in a potential state" here, though there would be a few ways of wording it and working in the "comme" is tricky. Since the author already has "seems", maybe leave it out (as in suggestion below), or insert it earlier: "because it is as if his natural..."
There is no doubt a reference here to Socrates' theory that all learning is remembering, so all of our knowledge in some ways exists inside us in a latent state.
"The philosopher will become a politician as a matter of obligation and because his natural philosophical aptitude, developed and reinforced by years of learning away from human affairs, seems to contain, in a latent state, the science of government."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-02-16 20:21:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Since it's philosophy, maybe even the Latin "in potentia" would be suitable.
There is no doubt a reference here to Socrates' theory that all learning is remembering, so all of our knowledge in some ways exists inside us in a latent state.
"The philosopher will become a politician as a matter of obligation and because his natural philosophical aptitude, developed and reinforced by years of learning away from human affairs, seems to contain, in a latent state, the science of government."
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2015-02-16 20:21:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Since it's philosophy, maybe even the Latin "in potentia" would be suitable.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Philippa Smith
: I think your "in potentia" sounds like it might be the perfect solution!!
37 mins
|
|
Thanks Philippa, I think you could be right.
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you! I like both parts of your solution: "as if" and "in potentia". "
+1
5 hrs
Francis Marche
France
France
Native in French
&
English
France
36 years experience on 4 continents
Native in: French 
, English
Works in: English to French, French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
32
virtually includes / encompasses as if in virtuality
"comprendre" is to encompass or include and the original meaning of "en puissance" is that of "in viruality". The strong, original meaning of "virtual" in English is "en puissance" : being such in power, force, or effect, though not actually or expressly such.
There is a risk to give a literal translation of "en puissance" here that would lead to overtranslating. There is no in potentia in the French text and therefore no point in placing this latin scholarly sounding term here where it could well have been if such had been the intent in the ST, i.e. no need to overemphasise what is not meant to be in the original, IMHO.
"en puissance" is a phrase in French with its own usage and meaning. Check for instance "un criminel en puissance", "un acteur en puissance"
"les pédagogues,s'interrogent sur le sens et les formes de ce passage qui conduit un acteur en puissance à un artiste que l'on espère accompli." http://www.actes-sud.fr/catalogue/apprendre/apprendre-20-con...
The ATILF quotes Bergson to illustrate "en puissance" and explains it as equivalent to "virtuellement" :
Loc. En puissance
Loc. adv. Virtuellement. Anton. effectivement, en acte. Cette multiplicité, cette distinction, cette hétérogénéité ne contiennent le nombre qu'en puissance, comme dirait Aristote (BERGSON, Essai donn. imm., 1889, p. 99). Un chêne porte en puissance, par tous ses glands, une forêt entière (PLANTEFOL, Bot. et biol. végét., t. 1, 1931, p. 550).
Loc. adj. Synon. potentiel, virtuel. L'homme sain est donc un névrotique en puissance, mais le rêve semble le seul symptôme qu'il soit capable de former (FREUD, Introd. psychanal., trad. par S. Jankélévitch, 1959 [1922], p. 489). L'enfant n'est pas seulement un adulte en puissance, mais bien un enfant (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 50-1).
and gives "effectivement" and " en acte" as its antonyms.
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv4/showps.exe?p=co...
Note that grammatically there are two "en puissance" :
1. the "locution adverbiale", and that's what it is in this bit in question ("comme en puissance"), where the Dictionary gives "virtuellement" as equivalent; and
2. the "locution adjectivale" such as "névrotique en puissance", "adulte en puissance", etc. where the Dictionary gives for equivalent terms "virtuel" and "potentiel".
So yes, you have some solid grounds for selecting "virtually/in virtuality" for your translation of "en puissance" here.
There is a risk to give a literal translation of "en puissance" here that would lead to overtranslating. There is no in potentia in the French text and therefore no point in placing this latin scholarly sounding term here where it could well have been if such had been the intent in the ST, i.e. no need to overemphasise what is not meant to be in the original, IMHO.
"en puissance" is a phrase in French with its own usage and meaning. Check for instance "un criminel en puissance", "un acteur en puissance"
"les pédagogues,s'interrogent sur le sens et les formes de ce passage qui conduit un acteur en puissance à un artiste que l'on espère accompli." http://www.actes-sud.fr/catalogue/apprendre/apprendre-20-con...
The ATILF quotes Bergson to illustrate "en puissance" and explains it as equivalent to "virtuellement" :
Loc. En puissance
Loc. adv. Virtuellement. Anton. effectivement, en acte. Cette multiplicité, cette distinction, cette hétérogénéité ne contiennent le nombre qu'en puissance, comme dirait Aristote (BERGSON, Essai donn. imm., 1889, p. 99). Un chêne porte en puissance, par tous ses glands, une forêt entière (PLANTEFOL, Bot. et biol. végét., t. 1, 1931, p. 550).
Loc. adj. Synon. potentiel, virtuel. L'homme sain est donc un névrotique en puissance, mais le rêve semble le seul symptôme qu'il soit capable de former (FREUD, Introd. psychanal., trad. par S. Jankélévitch, 1959 [1922], p. 489). L'enfant n'est pas seulement un adulte en puissance, mais bien un enfant (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 50-1).
and gives "effectivement" and " en acte" as its antonyms.
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv4/showps.exe?p=co...
Note that grammatically there are two "en puissance" :
1. the "locution adverbiale", and that's what it is in this bit in question ("comme en puissance"), where the Dictionary gives "virtuellement" as equivalent; and
2. the "locution adjectivale" such as "névrotique en puissance", "adulte en puissance", etc. where the Dictionary gives for equivalent terms "virtuel" and "potentiel".
So yes, you have some solid grounds for selecting "virtually/in virtuality" for your translation of "en puissance" here.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Yolanda Broad
1 hr
|
| neutral |
Melissa McMahon
: By the same argument, the author could have used "virtuellement", but didn't. En puissance/en acte is a well known distinction in ancient philosophy and is expressed in English as potential/actual. Virtual/actual is a modern distinction.
6 hrs
|
|
Not quite, in relation to the use of "in potentia". Translating a French term into Latin in an English rendition is unjustified where the Latin term is not in the ST.
|
15 hrs
latent mastery of the science of government
I think this is a difficult expression to render in English-"latent" or "underlying" or "in embyo" or something similar should be there, a potential which could easily be realised. I think I would want to read the whole text to be more sure, so if my idea is not so good, then Melissa's suggestion sounds ok. I think the word "latent" somewhere in the English is going in the right direction.
Discussion