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Apr 8, 2021 06:50
3 yrs ago
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French term

garant / porter garant

French to English Law/Patents Other adoption
This term appears in a document about an international adoption and refers to somebody who has agreed to look after the adopted child if the adoptive parent is unable to do so. For example:
La sœur de Madame xxx se porte garante. Si Madame xxx se trouve en difficultés, elle bénéficie d'un garant qui pourrait accueillir l'enfant.
thanks
Proposed translations (English)
4 +3 guardian / serve as guardian
4 +1 stands as guarantor
3 -2 act as a back-up adopter / back-up adopter

Discussion

Eliza Hall Apr 12, 2021:
Tuteur vs. gardien (d'enfant) A tuteur and a gardien are two legally distinct things... but what's the difference, and does EN use two different words for them?

Here's the difference between FR "tuteur" and "gardien": https://www.informelle.osbl.ca/public/chroniques-juridiques_...

A tuteur has legal authority over a child, and/or the child's assets. Parents automatically have this by law, but they can lose it (e.g. if they're convicted of child abuse).

A "gardien" has physical custody of a child (custody = "la garde," hence gardien). Parents have this too, but can sign it over to someone else, while retaining legal authority.

In EN we distinguish between legal custody (tutelle) and physical custody (la garde), but we normally use those terms only for parents. When a child is placed in the physical custody of a non-parent, we say "guardianship": https://www.findlaw.com/family/guardianship/faq-on-guardians...

This FR text is about what happens if a legal parent "se trouve en difficultés": she has someone who can accueillir l'enfant. That means welcome the child into their home... i.e. physical custody, i.e. guardianship.
Conor McAuley Apr 10, 2021:
This French website distinguishes between the "tuteur" (guardian) and the "garant" of a child, establishing, for me anyway, that they are separate concepts.

The page deals with adopting a child from abroad in France.

https://www.dossierfamilial.com/famille/enfant/ladoption-dun...

Click on "Entrée en France d'un enfant étranger"

Takes you down to:

[...]

"Ce dossier doit comprendre :"

[...]

"- l'acte d'abandon ou le consentement à l'adoption des parents, *tuteurs ***ou*** garants* de l'enfant ;"

And that's about as far as I, personally, anyway, can take the question, without more background information.
Conor McAuley Apr 9, 2021:
Asker/Jane, what country is the child being adopted in?

Is the adoptive parent a relative of the child, or are there other circumstances to explain why the child is not being adopted by a couple?

Thanks in advance.
Saeed Najmi Apr 9, 2021:
I may also just be overcautious but, given the nature of the document, I deemed necessar to draw attention to such details so the translator take them into account.
Cyril Tollari Apr 9, 2021:
I may be wrong, but my understanding is the Asker knows this part from the source text "somebody who has agreed to look after the adopted child if the adoptive parent is unable to do so"

I think "pourrait" is a French "hearsay" conditionnel. English doesn't use conditionnel to report "hearsay", but words like reportedly, allegedly, etc. The person writing the source text is only reporting what Madame X said.
Saeed Najmi Apr 8, 2021:
''se porte garante''
Le texte dit que si Madame X....., elle bénéficie d'un garant qui pourrait accueillir l'enfant. Ceci veut-t-il dire que le garant accepte toutes, seulement quelques une ou aucune des responsabilités légales et juridiques de l'adoption et elle s'engage seulement à accueillir l'enfant sans précision de conditions? Il faut dire que pour un texte légal, l'expression est vague et l'usage du conditionnel n'arrange pas mieux les choses non plus.
Cyril Tollari Apr 8, 2021:
backup guardian?
1. Backup Guardian Affidavit - required by some Judges. This is an identified
friend or relative who agrees to care for the child in the event of the death or
incapacity of the adoptive parent.
http://www.nyscala.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/NEW-Genera...
Jane RM (asker) Apr 8, 2021:
India
Jeanie Eldon Apr 8, 2021:
I found a link with the word "garantor" relating to the application for a passport for an adopted child. The term "garantor" is generally used for mortgages, real estate or financial sureties. In the case of adoption it would be something like a "special guardian" but the term used will probably be different from country to country, so may depend on where the adoption is being applied for. Could we know which English-speaking country this is? That would narrow down the possibilities for the correct term.

Proposed translations

+3
12 hrs
Selected

guardian / serve as guardian

As Jeanie Eldon pointed out in the discussion, there are a number of different terms used for this depending on the jurisdiction (US vs. UK vs. Canada etc., different US states, etc.). "Guardian" is one of them, and probably the most common. It would be understood anywhere in the EN-speaking world even if it weren't the term used by the local legal system.

http://nycourts.gov/courthelp/Guardianship/child.shtml

Depending on context, this could refer to a "temporary guardian" who steps in when there's an emergency ("Si Madame xxx se trouve en difficultés..."). If the rest of the FR passage doesn't make absolutely clear that it's only temporary, I would opt for "guardian" alone or for "emergency guardian," because it could last an indefinite length of time--potentially, if the emergency lasts that long, until the child reaches age 18.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2021-04-08 19:50:28 GMT)
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PS: "Guardian" is used in India as well. http://www.legalservicesindia.com/article/204/Child-Custody-...
Peer comment(s):
agree Cyril Tollari : I think guarantor is misleading https://www.passports.gov.au/getting-passport-how-it-works/h...
9 mins
Likewise.
agree Lucy Teasdale : I would say ‘act as guardian’
15 hrs
Yes, same thing.
neutral Conor McAuley : More general thoughts. No country context. "Tutrice" not used? The "garante" would meet adopter's obligations, but we don't know what the latter are exactly or what the title of the "garante" would be. So I now think that "guarantor" is correct!!!
22 hrs
How so?
agree Yvonne Gallagher
1 day 17 hrs
Thanks.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thanks very much to you all"
+1
1 hr

stands as guarantor

acts as guarantor
Reference:

http://https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-contracts/3410828-se-constituer-garant.html

Peer comment(s):
agree Yolanda Broad
2 hrs
Thanks Yolanda
agree philgoddard : But "stands as" sounds a bit odd. I'd say something like "is willing to act as".
10 hrs
Thanks for the amendment. Much better indeed.
disagree Eliza Hall : "Guarantor" doesn't have anything to do with child custody, adoption, etc. "Guarantor" is a financial and/or contractual term (one who guarantees that someone else's contract will be performed).
10 hrs
A person may act as a guarantor of another person in contexts other than finance and contracts.
disagree Lucy Teasdale : See comment above
1 day 2 hrs
agree Conor McAuley : Acts as. Given that the fact that "tutrice" (female guardian) is not used and the lack of full context...
2 days 11 hrs
Thanks Conor
Something went wrong...
-2
1 day 7 hrs

act as a back-up adopter / back-up adopter

I suggest this as a workaround solution.

Other synonyms of "back-up" could be used; secondary, replacement, substitute, etc.

If the primary adopter goes AWOL or whatever, then the secondary adopter will have to look after the child full-time, until the primary adopter comes back into the picture or the child reaches adult age.

I am working on the assumption that the child is a child from India who is being adopted in a French-speaking country (probably France), since the text is in France.

I haven't been able to find any information applicable to or vocabulary that could be used in relation to this unusual case (the Asker speaks of only one adoptive parent).

Check for yourselves:

Comment adopter un enfant à l'étranger ? (France)
https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F935

Adopting a child from overseas (England and Wales)
https://www.gov.uk/child-adoption/adopting-a-child-from-over...


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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs (2021-04-09 18:48:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Cyril's discussion entry, which I swear I've just seen (context: USA, NYC):

"backup guardian?
1. Backup Guardian Affidavit - required by some Judges. This is an identified
friend or relative who agrees to care for the child in the event of the death or
incapacity of the adoptive parent.
http://www.nyscala.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/NEW-Genera...

Reliability of source:
Main site: http://nyscala.com/
"Welcome to the official website of the Citywide Association of Law Assistants.
The Association represents Court Attorneys who work for judges who sit in Civil, Housing, Criminal, Family and Supreme Court in all five boroughs of the City of New York."

What do we do now Eliza, share the honours? (Smiley face but I don't do emojis in work contexts.)

I got "back-up", you got "guardian".

I do accept the point about parent through adoption v. guardian now, after seeing this (source not great, but explanation is convincing):

"A parent is related to the child either through biology or adoption. A guardian does not have to be directly related to the child or adopt him, but has to make all legal and pertinent decisions pertaining to a child’s education and life."

https://brainly.in/question/8681064#:~:text=A parent is rela...

Guardian on its own would be misleading.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 12 hrs (2021-04-09 18:52:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Alternatively Cyril should post his Discussion entry as an answer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 13 hrs (2021-04-10 20:06:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

AFTER A COMPLETE RETHINK:

No country context (child is FROM India, Asker hasn't replied to my question in Discussion.

"Tutrice" (female guardian) not used.

The "garante" would meet adopter's obligations, but we don't know what the latter are exactly or what the title of the "garante" would be. So I now think that "guarantor" is correct!!!

My answer is still a possibility -- very little context.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Eliza Hall : An "adopter" is a parent (legally speaking). A "garant" is not. This text isn't about if the legal parent dies; it's if she "se trouve en difficultés."
3 hrs
The person writing uses legal language and does not use the word "tutrice". No much context, so who knows with any degree of certainty?
disagree Lucy Teasdale : Not the same thing
4 hrs
So if Madame xxx dies, does her sister then become the adoptive parent in her stead or not? (For the moment we don't know the country the child is being adopted in.)
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