Nov 8, 2020 10:50
3 yrs ago
51 viewers *
English term

placement of a comma

Non-PRO English Other Other basic English grammar - punctuation/use of comma
Comply with the requirements of the Articles of Association, the terms of the Company’s Incorporation Agreement, implement the decisions of the management bodies of the Company, adopted within their competence.

Please tell me, if I need putting of a comma before "adopted within their competence.".

Is there a general rule?

MTIA
Change log

Nov 8, 2020 11:27: writeaway changed "Field (write-in)" from "�" to "basic English grammar - punctuation/use of comma"

Nov 8, 2020 12:56: Tony M changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (3): Barbara Carrara, Rachel Fell, Tony M

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Discussion

Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 10, 2020:
@Lara Being a non-native in English, I'd like you to give an example of my phrase improved. I have no clue of how it can look better :)
Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 10, 2020:
Dear colleagues, many thanks for your helpful comments :)
Lara Barnett Nov 10, 2020:
@ Alexander Re. "Adopted within their competence"
Phil is correct, this actually doesn't mean anything. It could be that you need to check your use of preposition or try a relative pronoun or something, but the whole phrase is a bit clumsy.
Also, I don't think the comma in the first line works. I would use "and" here instead, because both of the noun phrases look like they belong to the same verb ....
I.E.
"To comply with A and B, and to implement the...." or something.
Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 8, 2020:
@ philgoddard The example is a translation from Russian. "adopted within their competence" is deemed to mean "the decisions are considered right based on the confidence of the management bodies which adopted them". Something like that. And what option for the tranlation would you offer (maybe my option is wrong?)
Mark Robertson Nov 8, 2020:
@philgoddard Competence = the qualification or capacity of an official body to do something.

Dictionary of Modern Legal Usage, Bryan A. Garner, 2nd. Ed., p. 185.
philgoddard Nov 8, 2020:
You should also take out the random initial capitals. And I'm not clear what "adopted within their competence" means.
Sheila Wilson Nov 8, 2020:
Comma I'd definitely keep the comma in that second example. I think it's required.
Tony M Nov 8, 2020:
@ Asker Ah, in this new example, the comma may be considered essential, since it introduces a subordinate clause qualifying 'workshop'; it might also be regarded as continuing the initial subject "I ran..." which might be read as "... [through which I was] helping..."
Alexander Grabowski (asker) Nov 8, 2020:
@Sheila OK, what comment would you provide to the use of a comma in "I ran a workshop for the French national job centre for over six years, helping over 500 job-seekers from all walks of life with their English-language job applications." ?
Sheila Wilson Nov 8, 2020:
Two ands needed, IMO This is "Comply with A and B, and implement C".
Mark Robertson Nov 8, 2020:
@Alexander 1. There should be an and between the penultimate and final items in the list.
2. "Adopted within their competence" should read "Adopted within the ambit/scope/exercise of their competence".
3. The comma is unnecessary.

Responses

+6
18 mins
Selected

not really necessary

In this instance, I don't feel a comma is necessary — especially in view of the long list of preceding commas!
"adopted within their competence" simply qualifies "decisions", and there is thus no need to separate it from the preceding phrase.
However, there is a comma earlier in your text that might be better repalced with 'and':
"Comply with the requirements of the Articles of Association, the terms of the Company’s Incorporation Agreement..."
As I understand it, this is intended to mean "Comply with the requirements of the Articles of Association and also comply with the terms of the Company’s Incorporation Agreement..." — in which case, it would be better to use 'and' insetad of a comma here, which tends to lead one to expect that the remaining listed items are simply a continuation of the same idea, which I believe not to be the case?
With a long list like this, where many commas occur, it is often difficult to keep track of the intended reading; it may help (just in your head!) to replace the 'main' list commas with semi-colons, which could then help see where other commas may or may not be required.
I see this replacement of 'and' by a comma a great deal in other languages, and it seems to be creeping into EN usage, though I feel it is unwise, as it usually only hinders, rather than helps, comprehension. It is a particular trap for non-native speakers writing in EN to watch out for.

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Note added at 20 mins (2020-11-08 11:11:21 GMT)
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Yes, Mark makes a good additional point: there are in fact 2 list items here ('comply...' and 'implement'), and just as I have said above, that comma before implement should be followed by 'and', in order to aid comprehension.
Peer comment(s):

agree Anastasia Andriani : excellent explanation, Tony
22 mins
Thanks, Anastasia!
agree Sheila Wilson
54 mins
Thanks, Sheila!
agree Liane Lazoski
1 hr
Thanks, Liane!
agree Victoria Britten
2 hrs
Thanks, Victoria!
agree Yvonne Gallagher : yes, "and" would be preferable
2 hrs
Thanks, Yvonne!
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
5 hrs
Thanks, Tina!
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you, Tony!"
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