Feb 27 22:48
2 mos ago
56 viewers *
English term
challenge
English
Social Sciences
Psychology
Dear colleagues,
I’m not sure I’ve understood correctly the meaning of the verb “challenge” in the text below, taken from an essay about humiliation in cases of trauma and dissociation.
In the first occurrence, the author, referring to the discussion of a paper by Nina Fahri, says: “In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis”. But later on, he adds: " In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position.”. My doubt is the following: if he challenged her discussion, how could she agree with him? Might "challenge” have a different meaning here? Or maybe she agreed with him after he had challenged her? Actually, the situation is made more complicated by the fact that they refer to another author, psychoanalyst Winnicott... so I’m not sure who agrees and disagrees with whom!!
Thank you for your attention and patience!
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By chance, some years ago I was invited to discuss a paper by a brilliant disciple of Winnicott, Nina Farhi, who had taught Winnicottian theory for at least 30 years (Chefetz, 2008). Farhi, following Winnicott, presented the case of a psychotic woman. Upon reading the exquisitely detailed protocol, I was taken by the descriptions there in the same way I found Winnicott’s dream language clearly pointing to experiences of depersonalization, both in his patient and in his countertransference dream. *** In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis *** and opined that the patient was suffering from a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization described by having holes in her body that “birds could fly through.” *** In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position ***. She held Winnicott’s perception of the particular case of her patient’s depersonalization as psychosis.
I’m not sure I’ve understood correctly the meaning of the verb “challenge” in the text below, taken from an essay about humiliation in cases of trauma and dissociation.
In the first occurrence, the author, referring to the discussion of a paper by Nina Fahri, says: “In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis”. But later on, he adds: " In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position.”. My doubt is the following: if he challenged her discussion, how could she agree with him? Might "challenge” have a different meaning here? Or maybe she agreed with him after he had challenged her? Actually, the situation is made more complicated by the fact that they refer to another author, psychoanalyst Winnicott... so I’m not sure who agrees and disagrees with whom!!
Thank you for your attention and patience!
******************************
By chance, some years ago I was invited to discuss a paper by a brilliant disciple of Winnicott, Nina Farhi, who had taught Winnicottian theory for at least 30 years (Chefetz, 2008). Farhi, following Winnicott, presented the case of a psychotic woman. Upon reading the exquisitely detailed protocol, I was taken by the descriptions there in the same way I found Winnicott’s dream language clearly pointing to experiences of depersonalization, both in his patient and in his countertransference dream. *** In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis *** and opined that the patient was suffering from a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization described by having holes in her body that “birds could fly through.” *** In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position ***. She held Winnicott’s perception of the particular case of her patient’s depersonalization as psychosis.
Responses
+1
16 hrs
Selected
dispute
yes, agree it looks a bit confusing. This is the way I read it (rewritten/explained in b lines)
"challenge" as a verb means a call to prove/test or justify something. IOW to dispute the validity of something
1. "In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis" =
1b In my discussion of Farhi’s (own) work, I disputed the notion of psychosis IOW =I did NOT agree with her that this should be described as "psychosis"
2. "opined that the patient was suffering from a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization described [...] through.” =
2b In my opinion, the patient was not suffering from psychosis but rather "a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization" because of the way she is described as having "holes in her body [...] through"
3.In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position
3b. She (Fahri) agreed with my position that the patient was indeed suffering from "a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization"
HOWEVER!
4. "She held Winnicott’s perception of the particular case of her patient’s depersonalization as psychosis".
4b. She (Fahri) continued to agree with Winnicott that in this particular case the patient's "depersonalization" can be described as "psychosis"
IOW while she (Fahri) agrees that I have the right to dispute her findings and while she agrees (with my position) that there is "depersonalization", in the end she believes Winnicott is right that this "depersonalization" is "psychosis" in this case
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Note added at 7 days (2024-03-06 11:00:19 GMT) Post-grading
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Glad to have helped clarify the meaning by rewriting in more simple terms
Nothing missing in my opinion
"challenge" as a verb means a call to prove/test or justify something. IOW to dispute the validity of something
1. "In my discussion of Farhi’s work, I challenged the notion of psychosis" =
1b In my discussion of Farhi’s (own) work, I disputed the notion of psychosis IOW =I did NOT agree with her that this should be described as "psychosis"
2. "opined that the patient was suffering from a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization described [...] through.” =
2b In my opinion, the patient was not suffering from psychosis but rather "a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization" because of the way she is described as having "holes in her body [...] through"
3.In her discussion, challenged by me, she nevertheless agreed with my position
3b. She (Fahri) agreed with my position that the patient was indeed suffering from "a dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization"
HOWEVER!
4. "She held Winnicott’s perception of the particular case of her patient’s depersonalization as psychosis".
4b. She (Fahri) continued to agree with Winnicott that in this particular case the patient's "depersonalization" can be described as "psychosis"
IOW while she (Fahri) agrees that I have the right to dispute her findings and while she agrees (with my position) that there is "depersonalization", in the end she believes Winnicott is right that this "depersonalization" is "psychosis" in this case
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 days (2024-03-06 11:00:19 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------
Glad to have helped clarify the meaning by rewriting in more simple terms
Nothing missing in my opinion
Note from asker:
Thank you so much, Yvonne, for your really clear explanation! |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Daryo
: Agree with the whole explanation.
2 days 2 hrs
|
Many thanks:-) Yes, needs to be put in simple terms but I'm not "guessing" at meaning and see nothing "missing"
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you so much, Yvonne, for your extremely clear explanation! Many many thanks also to all other colleagues, especially to Mark!"
46 mins
he challenged her conclusion, not her premise
For the author, the patient in question had a "dissociative disorder with profound depersonalization", which he does not consider to be the same as psychosis. He therefore challenged Farhi's notion of psychosis.
In her discussion, Farhi had (nevertheless) agreed with his position that the patient was experiencing depersonalization, only she perceived it as a form of psychosis.
In her discussion, Farhi had (nevertheless) agreed with his position that the patient was experiencing depersonalization, only she perceived it as a form of psychosis.
Note from asker:
Thank you so much, Mark, for your useful contribution! So, "she held Winnicott's perception"..means that she agreed with Winnicott that this was a case of psychosis, although there were depersonalization' symptoms... |
Dear Mark, I would have liked to give points to you, as well, because your answer is similar to that by Yvonne, but hers is a little bit clearer. Anyway, I wish to thank you a lot for your contribution! |
19 hrs
dispute / defy
Yes "challenge" here has two different meanings [see link].
Note from asker:
Thank you, Susana, for your contribution! |
Discussion
At least, I now have a possible interpretation to submit...