Feb 20 16:40
2 mos ago
50 viewers *
French term
Victime désintéressée
French to English
Law/Patents
Business/Commerce (general)
A company internal document explaining their whistleblowing scheme.
Qui peut alerter ?
Dispositif d’alerte en vigueur
Personne physique
Salarié d'une entreprise du Groupe (hors filiales régulées)
Collaborateur extérieur ou occasionnel ;
Tiers
Victime désintéressée
Témoin direct et désintéressé
Mise à jour 2023
Personne physique
Ex : salarié, stagiaire, intérimaire, candidat à un emploi, membre du conseil d’administration, client particulier; collaborateur d’un prestataire, d’un fournisseur ou d'un client
Qui peut alerter ?
Dispositif d’alerte en vigueur
Personne physique
Salarié d'une entreprise du Groupe (hors filiales régulées)
Collaborateur extérieur ou occasionnel ;
Tiers
Victime désintéressée
Témoin direct et désintéressé
Mise à jour 2023
Personne physique
Ex : salarié, stagiaire, intérimaire, candidat à un emploi, membre du conseil d’administration, client particulier; collaborateur d’un prestataire, d’un fournisseur ou d'un client
Proposed translations
(English)
References
| Lanceur d’alerte désintéressé |
Daryo
|
Proposed translations
+1
7 hrs
Selected
Victim with no financial interest/claim
... I agree with Phil that it appears to be an awkward expression in French.
However, I took the trouble of looking it up in TLFi: "Qui agit, qui s'exerce sans but lucratif". It does give a second meaning, "Personne peu soucieuse de son intérêt, ..." but it looks like the financial meaning has become baked into the language to the point of making it a false friend in legalese.
Could there be a less clunky expression in English? Can't think of one.
However, I took the trouble of looking it up in TLFi: "Qui agit, qui s'exerce sans but lucratif". It does give a second meaning, "Personne peu soucieuse de son intérêt, ..." but it looks like the financial meaning has become baked into the language to the point of making it a false friend in legalese.
Could there be a less clunky expression in English? Can't think of one.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Yes, analytical approach seems to work; I cannot find a "neater" expression
17 hrs
|
|
Thanks
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, I was looking for a direct translation, but none seem to fit, so in the end I went for "Victim with no direct interest (financial or otherwise)", which was a translation of what the customer replied to my enquiry. "
-1
37 mins
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
31
(innocent) bystander victim
désintéressé: unprejudiced, Navarre + désintéresser: satisfy; pay off; buy out, Bridge, doesn't fit this context.
In the Queen's now King's English, uninterested (bored) and disinterested (impartial and unbiased, but may well be interested in the outcome) colloquially and journalistically (Daily Mail) are moving closer together, as problematically recognised by the OED.
'As some of us know from grave and earnest English law of tort or criminology studies', the concept of a shocked but innocent bystander ought to be factored in to the whistle-blowing (at my old school in the Deep South of England called: 'sneak') equation.
In the Queen's now King's English, uninterested (bored) and disinterested (impartial and unbiased, but may well be interested in the outcome) colloquially and journalistically (Daily Mail) are moving closer together, as problematically recognised by the OED.
'As some of us know from grave and earnest English law of tort or criminology studies', the concept of a shocked but innocent bystander ought to be factored in to the whistle-blowing (at my old school in the Deep South of England called: 'sneak') equation.
Example sentence:
Whistleblowing: The Innocent Bystander et al. + Ethics and ‘The Bystander Effect’ in the Workplace 11/13/2014 Whistleblowing Incidents Influenced by The Bystander Effect
But aren't bystanders by definition innocent? And isn't an organization of bystanders a contradiction in terms?
Reference:
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: Works for street muggings etc. but sounds decidedly wrong in relation to whisteblowing
2 days 30 mins
|
| disagree |
Daryo
: Where do you have a "bystander victim" in your refs.? All I can see there is some "bystander" who IS NOT any kind of victim but a witness.
3 days 16 hrs
|
22 hrs
Ivana Giuliani
Italy
Italy
Specializes in field
Italy
High-quality, accurate translations.
Native in: Italian 
Works in: French to Italian, Italian to French, English to Italian, and 5 more.
victim without (direct) financial/monetary compensation
.
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Note added at 22 ore (2024-02-21 15:03:48 GMT)
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Être désintéressé, c’est à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
https://www.gouvernement.fr/signalement-lanceur-d-alerte
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Note added at 22 ore (2024-02-21 15:08:41 GMT)
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From now on, a whistle-blower is defined as a natural person who reports or discloses, in good faith and without direct financial compensation, information ...
https://www.simmons-simmons.com/en/publications/cl0tho69y1es...
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Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:07:30 GMT)
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A whistleblower is a natural person who discloses or reports, without direct financial reward and in good faith,
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:08:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A whistleblower is now defined as being: “a natural person who reports or discloses, in good faith and without direct financial compensation,.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:08:29 GMT)
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https://www.lw.com/admin/upload/SiteAttachments/Alert 3025.p...
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Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:09:13 GMT)
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In all cases, it must be done without direct financial compensation and in good faith. More specifically, Covivio's internal whistleblowing system may concern:.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:09:33 GMT)
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https://www.covivio.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/08/05...
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Note added at 22 ore (2024-02-21 15:03:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Être désintéressé, c’est à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
https://www.gouvernement.fr/signalement-lanceur-d-alerte
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 22 ore (2024-02-21 15:08:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
From now on, a whistle-blower is defined as a natural person who reports or discloses, in good faith and without direct financial compensation, information ...
https://www.simmons-simmons.com/en/publications/cl0tho69y1es...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:07:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A whistleblower is a natural person who discloses or reports, without direct financial reward and in good faith,
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:08:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
A whistleblower is now defined as being: “a natural person who reports or discloses, in good faith and without direct financial compensation,.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:08:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.lw.com/admin/upload/SiteAttachments/Alert 3025.p...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:09:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
In all cases, it must be done without direct financial compensation and in good faith. More specifically, Covivio's internal whistleblowing system may concern:.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 giorno 3 ore (2024-02-21 20:09:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://www.covivio.eu/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2023/08/05...
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: "without direct financial reward" is the most likely - i.e. no one is paying the whistleblower to blow the whistle (like f.ex. the competition)
2 days 19 hrs
|
1 day 23 hrs
victim who has accepted settlement
Note the legal meaning of désintéresser :
désintéresser […]
Mettre quelqu’un hors d’intérêt, en le dédommageant de ce qu’il perd ou de ce qu’il espérait.
Quand le marchand d’huile comprit quel marché de dupe il avait fait, il ne lui était plus permis de se débarrasser d’Aristide ; la dot d’Angèle se trouvait engagée dans des spéculations qui tournaient mal. Il dut garder le ménage chez lui, exaspéré, frappé au cœur par le gros appétit de sa belle-fille et par les fainéantises de son fils. Vingt fois, s’il avait pu les désintéresser, il aurait mis à la porte cette vermine qui lui suçait le sang, selon son énergique expression. — (Émile Zola, La Fortune des Rougon, G. Charpentier, Paris, 1871, ch. II ; réédition 1879, p. 76-77)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/désintéresser
and as evidenced here:
https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2023-05/Stat...
Plaignant désintéressé sur demande du parquet : motif de classement sans suite fondé sur l’indemnisation ou la réparation du préjudice de la victime par l’auteur de l’infraction à la demande
Victime désintéressée d’office : motif de classement sans suite fondé sur le fait que l’auteur a indemnisé la victime de sa propre initiative.
So in the text of the question, it seems that receiving payment etc. to compensate the wrong done does not invalidate the victim from blowing the whistle on the 'kind benefactor'. Read about non-disclosure agreements / gagging clauses and reform to prevent the use of gagging clauses here: https://protect-advice.org.uk/settlement-agreements/
which states:
"Can I still whistleblow if I decide to settle?
Yes, you can! As you have seen in the previous section, section 43J of the Employment Rights Act 1996, as amended by the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, provides that no clause in a settlement can prevent workers from making protected disclosures. So, even if you’ve signed a settlement agreement that claims to prevent you from whistleblowing, you’re still legally able to do so."
Maybe on the strength of that someone will come up with a one-word answer.
désintéresser […]
Mettre quelqu’un hors d’intérêt, en le dédommageant de ce qu’il perd ou de ce qu’il espérait.
Quand le marchand d’huile comprit quel marché de dupe il avait fait, il ne lui était plus permis de se débarrasser d’Aristide ; la dot d’Angèle se trouvait engagée dans des spéculations qui tournaient mal. Il dut garder le ménage chez lui, exaspéré, frappé au cœur par le gros appétit de sa belle-fille et par les fainéantises de son fils. Vingt fois, s’il avait pu les désintéresser, il aurait mis à la porte cette vermine qui lui suçait le sang, selon son énergique expression. — (Émile Zola, La Fortune des Rougon, G. Charpentier, Paris, 1871, ch. II ; réédition 1879, p. 76-77)
https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/désintéresser
and as evidenced here:
https://www.justice.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2023-05/Stat...
Plaignant désintéressé sur demande du parquet : motif de classement sans suite fondé sur l’indemnisation ou la réparation du préjudice de la victime par l’auteur de l’infraction à la demande
Victime désintéressée d’office : motif de classement sans suite fondé sur le fait que l’auteur a indemnisé la victime de sa propre initiative.
So in the text of the question, it seems that receiving payment etc. to compensate the wrong done does not invalidate the victim from blowing the whistle on the 'kind benefactor'. Read about non-disclosure agreements / gagging clauses and reform to prevent the use of gagging clauses here: https://protect-advice.org.uk/settlement-agreements/
which states:
"Can I still whistleblow if I decide to settle?
Yes, you can! As you have seen in the previous section, section 43J of the Employment Rights Act 1996, as amended by the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998, provides that no clause in a settlement can prevent workers from making protected disclosures. So, even if you’ve signed a settlement agreement that claims to prevent you from whistleblowing, you’re still legally able to do so."
Maybe on the strength of that someone will come up with a one-word answer.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
SafeTex
: I'm aware of this possible meaning of "désintéressée" but it does not fit here in this whistleblowing scenario.
5 hrs
|
| neutral |
Daryo
: Just because you have been compensated for troubles caused by say faulty brakes, doesn't mean you have to keep quiet about the defect, so this is a plausible option "in this context". It could make sense, but difficult to be sure without more info.
8 hrs
|
| neutral |
Emmanuella
: Il n'est pas question de désintéressement dans ce contexte : qui peut alerter ?
23 hrs
|
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: But do whistleblowers receive settlement (other than bribes to keep quiet)?
23 hrs
|
+2
4 days
Victim with no ulterior motive
This may be what is meant.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Slightly similar to Mpoma's answer and could be correct
2 days 7 hrs
|
| agree |
Daryo
: So far, makes the most sense.
2 days 23 hrs
|
Reference comments
3 days 17 hrs
Reference:
Lanceur d’alerte désintéressé
Pour être lanceur d’alerte, vous devez :
-- Être une personne physique ;
-- Être désintéressé, c’est-à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
-- Avoir eu personnellement et directement connaissance des faits signalés si ceuxci n’ont pas été découverts dans le cadre de votre activité professionnelle ;
-- Être de bonne foi, c’està-dire avoir des motifs raisonnables de croire que les faits signalés sont véridiques à la lumière des informations dont vous disposez et qu’ils sont bien susceptibles de faire l’objet d’une alerte ;
https://www.gouvernement.fr/organisation/comite-d-indemnisat...
Être désintéressé, c’est-à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
=
you are not blowing the whistle because someone paid you to do it
But why some whistle-blowers would be categorized as "une victime désintéressée" is still unclear.
-- Être une personne physique ;
-- Être désintéressé, c’est-à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
-- Avoir eu personnellement et directement connaissance des faits signalés si ceuxci n’ont pas été découverts dans le cadre de votre activité professionnelle ;
-- Être de bonne foi, c’està-dire avoir des motifs raisonnables de croire que les faits signalés sont véridiques à la lumière des informations dont vous disposez et qu’ils sont bien susceptibles de faire l’objet d’une alerte ;
https://www.gouvernement.fr/organisation/comite-d-indemnisat...
Être désintéressé, c’est-à-dire ne tirer aucune contrepartie financière directe du signalement ;
=
you are not blowing the whistle because someone paid you to do it
But why some whistle-blowers would be categorized as "une victime désintéressée" is still unclear.
Discussion
Never mind that anyone temped into whistle-blowing must have some kind of "interest". Especially, you would expect from a "victim" to definitely have a stake in what happened - if nothing else the desire to get some form of redress.
The term "victime désintéressée" sounds like a contradiction in terms: a victim who doesn't care about being a victim???
You're a victim and "you don't have a stake in prosecuting, because you have not lost or been deprived of anything of value"? What kind of victim would that be??
Even if you limit "désintéressée" to a purely monetary / material aspect, you still have at least two variants:
-- "La victime désintéressée" who asked for a compensation and got it or
-- "La victime désintéressée" who is not asking for any compensation
All very "simple and easy to understand", surely?
Pour un francophone, c'est tout à fait compréhensible.
"Here's another one:
Ainsi, le régime des « lanceurs d’alerte » concerne les :
[...]
(personnes) désintéressées, c’est-à-dire dont l’objectif n’est pas de tirer un avantage (notamment financier)"
https://www.lextant-avocats.com/fr/actualites/id-102-lanceur...
And here in English:
"the requirement for ‘disinterested’ whistleblowing has disappeared, replaced by the requirement for ‘no direct financial consideration’ "
https://www.nomosparis.com/en/whistleblowers-good-faith-acco...
https://www.gide.com/en/news/new-measures-strengthening-the-...
http://www.vie-publique.fr/loi/282472-loi-21-mars-2022-waser...