Jun 3, 2023 10:05
12 mos ago
51 viewers *
French term
toilettes
French to English
Law/Patents
Real Estate
This has made me laugh. It's a draft instrument of sale, a promise by the look of it.
I found this in the archives, but it doesn't really help: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/real-estate/435...
This is the OLD description of the flat (in Paris):
"Un appartement situé au cinquième étage à droite, comprenant :
entrée, trois pièces, cuisine, penderie, placards, water-closets."
Then it says:
"2°) Travaux d’aménagements réalisés par le VENDEUR :
Le VENDEUR déclare que, depuis son acquisition, il a réalisé les travaux suivants, savoir :
- déplacement de la cuisine dans l’ancienne chambre,
- création d’une salle d’eau avec WC et toilettes dans l’ancienne cuisine.
Il précise que les raccordements ont été effectués dans les règles de l’art sur des canalisations existantes et qu’il n’a reçu aucune contestation de quiconque à ce sujet.
De sorte que la désignation actuelle du BIEN est la suivante :
- entrée, toilettes, dégagement, deux salles d’eau avec WC, chambre, cuisine et séjour."
So... you have a flat, now, with ONE bedroom, two shower rooms (with WC) ... but ALSO "toilettes"! I'm inclined to think this is maybe "washroom" or something like that.
The vendor is a company, and this might be one of those flats of which the current mayor Hidalgo is such a scourge: AirBNB cash-cows, "sleeps 23". But even then... would anyone, even Americans, really need so many facilities for their ablutions?
Or could "toilettes" mean something like "laundry room" perhaps?
I found this in the archives, but it doesn't really help: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/real-estate/435...
This is the OLD description of the flat (in Paris):
"Un appartement situé au cinquième étage à droite, comprenant :
entrée, trois pièces, cuisine, penderie, placards, water-closets."
Then it says:
"2°) Travaux d’aménagements réalisés par le VENDEUR :
Le VENDEUR déclare que, depuis son acquisition, il a réalisé les travaux suivants, savoir :
- déplacement de la cuisine dans l’ancienne chambre,
- création d’une salle d’eau avec WC et toilettes dans l’ancienne cuisine.
Il précise que les raccordements ont été effectués dans les règles de l’art sur des canalisations existantes et qu’il n’a reçu aucune contestation de quiconque à ce sujet.
De sorte que la désignation actuelle du BIEN est la suivante :
- entrée, toilettes, dégagement, deux salles d’eau avec WC, chambre, cuisine et séjour."
So... you have a flat, now, with ONE bedroom, two shower rooms (with WC) ... but ALSO "toilettes"! I'm inclined to think this is maybe "washroom" or something like that.
The vendor is a company, and this might be one of those flats of which the current mayor Hidalgo is such a scourge: AirBNB cash-cows, "sleeps 23". But even then... would anyone, even Americans, really need so many facilities for their ablutions?
Or could "toilettes" mean something like "laundry room" perhaps?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +2 | cloakroom (BrEn) |
AllegroTrans
|
| 4 | toilet |
Thomas T. Frost
|
| 3 | toilet (room) [BrE] / bathroom [AmE] |
Andrzej Ziomek
|
| 2 -3 | dressing room/s |
Adrian MM.
|
Proposed translations
+2
2 days 10 hrs
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
251
Selected
cloakroom (BrEn)
Dictionary
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
cloakroom
noun
noun: cloakroom; plural noun: cloakrooms
1.
a room in a public building where outdoor clothes or luggage may be left.
"the cloakroom attendant"
2.
British
a room that contains a toilet or toilets.
"a downstairs cloakroom with a WC and hand basin"
Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more
cloakroom
noun
noun: cloakroom; plural noun: cloakrooms
1.
a room in a public building where outdoor clothes or luggage may be left.
"the cloakroom attendant"
2.
British
a room that contains a toilet or toilets.
"a downstairs cloakroom with a WC and hand basin"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: I think this is the best solution overall, and fits most loogically with the accommodation listed in the context given.
10 hrs
|
|
thanks TM
|
|
| agree |
Angus Stewart
23 hrs
|
|
thanks
|
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks"
1 day 3 hrs
Andrzej Ziomek
Poland
Poland
Works in field
Poland
Jack of all trades Master of translation
Native in: Polish 
Works in: English to Polish, Polish to English
toilet (room) [BrE] / bathroom [AmE]
Might not seem very revealing but ...
1 day 3 hrs
Thomas T. Frost
Portugal
Portugal
Native in English
Portugal
‘Very good precision work’ – Comunica.dk
Native in: Danish (Variant: Standard (rigsdansk)) , English (Variants: British, UK)
Works in: Danish to English, English to Danish, French to Danish
Related KudoZ points
:
4
toilet
Separate room with a toilet with or without a hand basin and nothing else. 'Bathroom' for US English could be misleading, as a US bathroom could also include a bathtub and/or shower.
-3
1 day 4 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: Scottish, British)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
77
French term (edited):
toilette/s
dressing room/s
Methinks is hort for 'cabinet/s de toilette' and does have the meaning of laundry or wash room (Larousse) or *dressing table* (Harrap's) - cut to 'faire la / sa toilette'.
'The problem as i see it is that FR doesn't usually have a single word for 'cloakroom' ?
'Ask the client or obtain a map, plan or, better still, a photograph', whether the property is being sold 'by reference thereto' (non-binding) or, esp. in UK conveyancing liability terms, 'as more particularly described therein' (has binding force).
PS a promise to sell can be translated as a prelim. agreement to sell ('undertaking' per FHS Bridge, albeit of little worth in UK terms, unless given by a solicitor /small 's') vs. a (binding) contract of sale.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2023-06-04 14:49:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'short for'...
'The problem as i see it is that FR doesn't usually have a single word for 'cloakroom' ?
'Ask the client or obtain a map, plan or, better still, a photograph', whether the property is being sold 'by reference thereto' (non-binding) or, esp. in UK conveyancing liability terms, 'as more particularly described therein' (has binding force).
PS a promise to sell can be translated as a prelim. agreement to sell ('undertaking' per FHS Bridge, albeit of little worth in UK terms, unless given by a solicitor /small 's') vs. a (binding) contract of sale.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 4 hrs (2023-06-04 14:49:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
'short for'...
Example sentence:
raduction de "dressing room" en français · dressing · vestiaire · loge · vestiaires · dressing room · ordinateur personnel · cabine d'essayage · *cabinet de toilette* ...
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Emmanuella
: Les toilettes et non le vestiaire
6 mins
|
| disagree |
Tony M
: Even in French, they use 'dressing', so I think this would be an unwise choice with the intention of its meaning something different. Also, a 'dressing room' is an unlikely space to find in an appartment with this level of accommodation.
1 hr
|
| disagree |
AllegroTrans
: In context (this particular apartment) highly unlikely
2 days 13 mins
|
Discussion
I never thought I would search "toilet to person ratio", but this is one of the results you get:
"One toilet should be provided for every 1-6 guests. Two toilets should be provided for every 7-12 guests. Three toilets should be provided for every 13-18 guests. Each of these toilets *should also have a washbasin provided nearby*."
(Hostels, guesthouses and B&Bs, UK.)
The apartment is on the 5th floor, so it is also conceivable that the presumed Airbnb might share its toilet and washing facilities with other guests in converted "chambres de bonnes" on the 6th floor in the rafters above.
Because ten or more people in a bedroom originally meant for two people seems slightly excessive, even by capitalist standards!
If 'nothing fancy' then why not:
toilet (room) BrE
bathroom AmE
...as simple as that
https://www.artstation.com/artwork/28oxZe
A cloakroom is usually a small downstairs bathroom that contains a toilet, basin and mirror. It's a place where guests can use the toilet without having to use the family bathroom upstairs.
La description des toilettes faite par Thomas T. Frost est exacte. Il s'agit d'une petite pièce équipée d'un petit lavabo (cf. Tony M).
'Toilettes' in France may or may not be equipped with a hand basin, unsanitary as it is without, even in recent houses, so we should not add 'hand basin' if the source doesn't mention it.
A 'Salle de bains'/'salle d'eau' may or may not have a toilet, but there will nearly always be a hand basin.
The source says that one salle d'eau with WC was added, but then the description of the current state goes on to say 'DEUX salles d'eau with WC'. Where did the second one come from? 'Deux' could be an error.
But perhaps use something like Tony's explanation, "WC with hand-basin/wash basin", rather than "cloakroom", as I think that sense of the word is unlikely to be understood outside of the UK (it's not used that way in Ireland, as far as I know).
Although a "shower room with WC" without a basin to wash your hands would be rather insanitary. So we seem possibly to have facilities for 3 persons to wash their hands simultaneously. Curious. To the point of amusement.
"Rooms/areas" worth mentioning in Parisian flat désignations can obviously take up no more than a couple of square metres.
Remember, 'faire sa toilette' can simply mean 'having a wash'
The problem as i see it is that FR doesn't usually have a single word for 'cloakroom' in this sense, and if you try to explain, the term you end up with is bigger than the room istelf!
The only other thought that occurs is about bidets, but presumably if you have one bidet, you have one toilet "apparatus" in the same room, that's only logic.