Apr 28, 2023 16:23
1 yr ago
38 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
les décisions écrites [...] sont réservées.
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Articles of Association (S.A.)
En cas de décision par voie électronique, aucune signature n’est nécessaire ; les décisions écrites divergentes du conseil d’administration sont réservées.
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+1
4 hrs
Selected
decisions in writing that diverge [...] shall prevail
The Swiss themselves appear to have issues with this turn of phrase.
"La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse. L'al. 3 est réservé.
Formule plus élégante :
La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse, sous réserve de l'al. 3."
https://www.bk.admin.ch/bk/fr/home/documentation/langues/aid...
I don't think it's about the board's decision re. the validity of electronic voting without signature, as some answers and indeed the English translation on the Swiss site suggest, but rather about the (non-)validity of such a decision if the board has a written decision that differs from the electronic decision.
People more familiar with legal lingo than I will be able to turn my sow's ear below into a silk purse.
No signature is necessary in the case of a decision being made by electronic means; decisions by the board in writing that diverge therefrom shall take precedence and shall prevail.
"La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse. L'al. 3 est réservé.
Formule plus élégante :
La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse, sous réserve de l'al. 3."
https://www.bk.admin.ch/bk/fr/home/documentation/langues/aid...
I don't think it's about the board's decision re. the validity of electronic voting without signature, as some answers and indeed the English translation on the Swiss site suggest, but rather about the (non-)validity of such a decision if the board has a written decision that differs from the electronic decision.
People more familiar with legal lingo than I will be able to turn my sow's ear below into a silk purse.
No signature is necessary in the case of a decision being made by electronic means; decisions by the board in writing that diverge therefrom shall take precedence and shall prevail.
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "thanks!!"
17 mins
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Irish, British, Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
210
the written decisions [...] are unaffected
See FHS Bridge, réservé => unaffected
I'm not quite as sure as usual, though.
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Note added at 20 mins (2023-04-28 16:44:24 GMT)
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Yes, I'm a little unsure, but at any rate, you should take a look at "réservé" and "réserver" in Bridge, you should find something that fits the context, which seems a little complex, on reflection – there's something going on with "divergentes".
Diverging from what, is the key question, I think.
I'm not quite as sure as usual, though.
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Note added at 20 mins (2023-04-28 16:44:24 GMT)
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Yes, I'm a little unsure, but at any rate, you should take a look at "réservé" and "réserver" in Bridge, you should find something that fits the context, which seems a little complex, on reflection – there's something going on with "divergentes".
Diverging from what, is the key question, I think.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Conor I think this is the basic meaning |
+1
2 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
286
unless the board of directors decides otherwise in writing
Decisions made electronically need not be signed, unless the board decides otherwise in writing.
"Divergentes" means "differing from what we just said", ie that they need not be signed. "Réservés" means "are an exception to this requirement".
Thanks to Samuël in the discussion box for putting me on what I believe to be the right track.
"Divergentes" means "differing from what we just said", ie that they need not be signed. "Réservés" means "are an exception to this requirement".
Thanks to Samuël in the discussion box for putting me on what I believe to be the right track.
Note from asker:
| Thanks Phil, but I somehow think this puts the wrong slant on it |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Andrew Bramhall
: Yes. that's the upshot;
33 mins
|
| agree |
Jennifer Levey
38 mins
|
| disagree |
SafeTex
: sorry to be a fly in the ointment but I fhink this gives a wrong result if appended to the sentence before. See discussion
1 day 14 hrs
|
4 hrs
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
French term (edited):
les décisions écrites divergentes sont réservées.
this is subject to the Board of Directors resolving differently in writing
Thanks to Samuël B. for the lead.
I think, though, that Board of Directors should be written with initial caps and that this is not a subordinate clause, starting '... unless...' but a main clause, so kicks off with '..this is subject to...', a tzpi9cal notarial formula.
I also agree with Miriam's resolutions, except that connotes a shareholders' resolution on a written poll or ballot - points taking us down a different avenue and requiring at least consideration, let alone informed debate.
Low confidence level. symmetrically, in descending order of 4-3-2 and flavo(u)r of the month.
I think, though, that Board of Directors should be written with initial caps and that this is not a subordinate clause, starting '... unless...' but a main clause, so kicks off with '..this is subject to...', a tzpi9cal notarial formula.
I also agree with Miriam's resolutions, except that connotes a shareholders' resolution on a written poll or ballot - points taking us down a different avenue and requiring at least consideration, let alone informed debate.
Low confidence level. symmetrically, in descending order of 4-3-2 and flavo(u)r of the month.
Example sentence:
Unless otherwise resolved at the meeting, the Chairman cannot announce adjournment of the meeting before all the discussion items (including special motions) ...
Note from asker:
| Thanks Adrian |
35 mins
Myriam Seers
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Specializes in field
Canada
Practising commercial lawyer
Native in: English (Variant: Canadian)
Works in: French to English, Italian to English, Portuguese to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
[…] except in the case of written resolutions […]
See discussion.
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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2023-04-30 15:01:34 GMT) Post-grading
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@AllegroTrans: in corporate law, we speak of board “resolutions” pretty much universally. They are the manifestation of the board’s “decisions”, and so IMO is the correct translation of “décision” as used in your excerpt, at least the earlier instances (the solution you selected leads to two different usages of “décision” in the excerpt in my view, which is contrary to the presumption of consistent expression, but doesn’t necessarily make it wrong, especially not in a French document).
For example:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporateresolution.asp
https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/resolutions-of-the-board-o...
https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/us/corporate-resolution
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/77476/00011931251016...
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/92230/00011931250401...
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Note added at 1 day 22 hrs (2023-04-30 15:01:34 GMT) Post-grading
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@AllegroTrans: in corporate law, we speak of board “resolutions” pretty much universally. They are the manifestation of the board’s “decisions”, and so IMO is the correct translation of “décision” as used in your excerpt, at least the earlier instances (the solution you selected leads to two different usages of “décision” in the excerpt in my view, which is contrary to the presumption of consistent expression, but doesn’t necessarily make it wrong, especially not in a French document).
For example:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporateresolution.asp
https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/resolutions-of-the-board-o...
https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/us/corporate-resolution
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/77476/00011931251016...
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/92230/00011931250401...
Note from asker:
| Thanks Myriam but I always associate "resolution" with shareholders rather than directors |
Discussion
"unless the board of directors specify"
should be "specifies", since the board is an entity and thus singular.
In the UK they've started doing something weird where a Board would be considered to be a group of people or parties and not an entity and thus "they", terrible, but anyway...
For example:
https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/corporateresolution.asp
https://www.lawinsider.com/clause/resolutions-of-the-board-o...
https://www.contractscounsel.com/t/us/corporate-resolution
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/77476/00011931251016...
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/92230/00011931250401...
Bearing in mind what i said this morning, and based on your interpretation
""without prejudice to any decisions of the Board of Directors that diverge from decisions reached by means of the aforementioned provisions"
Do you see what I'm trying to get at? The Board are not going to oppose the electronic means (the provisions) but may well oppose decisions reached by such a system
Regards
Anyone like to comment on this interpretation?
I've disagreed with Phil's popular answer and if I'm wrong, I can retract but I believe that if appended to the phrase before, it will give a wrong result, namely
En cas de décision par voie électronique, aucune signature n’est nécessaire, unless the board of directors decides otherwise in writing
which is not what the French text means. All the other suggestions have a sense closer to the French.
Regards
SafeTex
Maybe the German is more straightforward and the translation was done from the German?
"La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse. L'al. 3 est réservé.
Formule plus élégante :
La teneur en eau des produits de la minoterie ne doit pas dépasser 16 % masse, sous réserve de l'al. 3."
https://www.bk.admin.ch/bk/fr/home/documentation/langues/aid...
That said, the Swiss are kind enough to provide English translations.
BUT they come with this rider, which could be used as a footnote:
"English is not an official language of the Swiss Confederation. This translation is provided for information purposes only and has no legal force."
"Otherwise" would be better than "a different requirement" - it's more concise, and avoids the repetition of "required/requirement".
translated as this on the site, Art. 713
"[...], aucune signature n’est nécessaire; les décisions écrites divergentes du conseil d’administration sont réservées."
"[...], no signature is required, unless the board of directors specify a different requirement in writing"
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317_321_377/fr
https://www.fedlex.admin.ch/eli/cc/27/317_321_377/en //
This is “réservé” in the sense of creating an exception.
Here is an explanation of this acception:
DR. Clause restrictive ajoutée à un acte pour se soustraire à une éventuelle obligation. Émettre, faire des réserves. Dans ce contrat, il a fait plusieurs réserves (Ac.).Le créancier qui a déchargé le débiteur par qui a été faite la délégation, n'a point de recours contre ce débiteur, si le délégué devient insolvable, à moins que l'acte n'en contienne une réserve expresse (Code civil, 1804, art. 1276, p. 230).La Convention eut beau voter une réserve et dire qu'elle ne préjugeait pas si elle jugeait Louis XIV ou si elle prononçait une mesure de sûreté (Camus,Homme rév., 1951, p. 152).
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/réserve
https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/synonymes/réserver/182...
https://www.treuhandsuisse.ch/fr/blog/nouveau-droit-de-la-so...
… except in the case of written resolutions …
Le conseil d’administration peut prendre ses décisions:
- dans le cadre d’une séance avec lieu de réunion;
- sous une forme électronique par analogie avec les art. 701c à 701e du Code des obligations;
- par écrit sur papier ou sous forme électronique, à moins qu’une discussion ne soit requise par l’un des membres du conseil d’administration. En cas de décision par voie électronique, aucune signature n’est nécessaire ; les décisions écrites divergentes du conseil d’administration sont réservées.
You could render it with any of the expressions introducing an exception. “Without limiting A, B”, “Despite/notwithstanding A, then B”, etc.
Does this make sense in the broader context of the Articles?