Jan 24, 2022 10:48
2 yrs ago
36 viewers *
French term
combiner
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
wills
Complicated partage (division) of a will.
"CONCOURS DE QUOTITES DISPONIBLES
La personne décédée a consenti des libéralités tant à son conjoint qu'à d'autres personnes.
Il y a donc nécessité de combiner la quotité disponible ordinaire avec la quotité disponible entre époux, ces quotités ne pouvant se cumuler."
This has me scratching my head. I went to TLFi and looked up both "combiner" and "cumuler". Conjecturing, I hypothesise that combiner may mean "merge" here as one of a limited range of feasible meanings distinct from "add together". But I can't say that any of the TLFi definitions really fit.
The bit which follows this may help:
"Les règles à suivre sont les suivantes :
chacun des gratifiés doit être enfermé dans les limites de ce que la loi lui permet de recevoir ;
le plafond des libéralités que le de cujus peut consentir est constitué par la quotité disponible ordinaire majorée de ce qui lui ajoute le disponible spécial entre époux ;
enfin, les libéralités consenties à des bénéficiaires autres que le conjoint survivant s'imputent exclusivement sur le disponible ordinaire, cependant que celles consenties au conjoint survivant s'imputent principalement sur le disponible ordinaire si elles sont en toute propriété mais sur l'excédent résultant du disponible spécial entre époux si elles ne sont qu'en usufruit."
Clair comme de la boue... NB as to whether these libéralités are with life interests only, some are and some aren't.
"CONCOURS DE QUOTITES DISPONIBLES
La personne décédée a consenti des libéralités tant à son conjoint qu'à d'autres personnes.
Il y a donc nécessité de combiner la quotité disponible ordinaire avec la quotité disponible entre époux, ces quotités ne pouvant se cumuler."
This has me scratching my head. I went to TLFi and looked up both "combiner" and "cumuler". Conjecturing, I hypothesise that combiner may mean "merge" here as one of a limited range of feasible meanings distinct from "add together". But I can't say that any of the TLFi definitions really fit.
The bit which follows this may help:
"Les règles à suivre sont les suivantes :
chacun des gratifiés doit être enfermé dans les limites de ce que la loi lui permet de recevoir ;
le plafond des libéralités que le de cujus peut consentir est constitué par la quotité disponible ordinaire majorée de ce qui lui ajoute le disponible spécial entre époux ;
enfin, les libéralités consenties à des bénéficiaires autres que le conjoint survivant s'imputent exclusivement sur le disponible ordinaire, cependant que celles consenties au conjoint survivant s'imputent principalement sur le disponible ordinaire si elles sont en toute propriété mais sur l'excédent résultant du disponible spécial entre époux si elles ne sont qu'en usufruit."
Clair comme de la boue... NB as to whether these libéralités are with life interests only, some are and some aren't.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 | join / combine |
Katarina Peters
|
| 3 +1 | amalgamate |
AllegroTrans
|
| 3 | consolidate with |
Adrian MM.
|
| 3 | to be considered together |
Daryo
|
| 3 | reconcile |
Jennifer Levey
|
Proposed translations
3 hrs
Katarina Peters
Canada
Canada
Native in English
Specializes in field
Canada
Accuracy and A1 presentation
Native in: Hungarian 
, English (Variant: US)
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, Hungarian to English, and 13 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
83
Selected
join / combine
in essence, that's the idea.
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Yes, the word <i>cumuler</i> appears to be the issue here: I believe it means "exist concurrently" in the mind of the drafter... "
+1
30 mins
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
1355
amalgamate
I have no references or reasoning to offer, this just strikes me as the appropriate term
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Angelo Berbotto
: I assume that this is a text from France -- if you look at arts 912 et seq of the Civil Code (I´ll add the link), it may be that amalgamation works -- the reason why they cannot be accumulated is because they belong to different categories.
59 mins
|
|
thanks
|
1 hr
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
French term (edited):
combiner avec
consolidate with
> as in merger into - e.g. swallowed up by, such as a prelim. UK contract of sale of land into the conveyance. We'll forget hotchpot for now....
....ne pouvant se cumuler : being non-cumulative : so 'non-aggregatable'.
PS consolidation is not entirely unequivocal - hence middling confidence.
....ne pouvant se cumuler : being non-cumulative : so 'non-aggregatable'.
PS consolidation is not entirely unequivocal - hence middling confidence.
Example sentence:
Substantive Consolidation The combining of the bankruptcy estates of two or more related debtors into a single estate for the purpose of paying the claims belonging to creditors of both debtors.
unquoted shares included in the settled property are aggregated with other holdings in the estate for valuation purposes.
Reference:
http://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/shares-and-assets-valuation-manual/svm108250
http://www.myestateplan.com/consolidate-assets-with-a-living-trust/
1 hr
to be considered together
... combiner la quotité disponible ordinaire avec la quotité disponible entre époux ...
=
... to consider (allocate? evaluate?) both ... and ... together/at the same time
IOW apply one set of rules applicable to both "quotités" taken as a whole, instead of two separate/independent sets of rules.
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Note added at 1 hr (2022-01-24 12:42:22 GMT)
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as for
"Les règles à suivre sont les suivantes :
chacun des gratifiés doit être enfermé dans les limites de ce que la loi lui permet de recevoir ;
le plafond des libéralités que le de cujus peut consentir est constitué par la quotité disponible ordinaire majorée de ce qui lui ajoute le disponible spécial entre époux ;
enfin, les libéralités consenties à des bénéficiaires autres que le conjoint survivant s'imputent exclusivement sur le disponible ordinaire, cependant que celles consenties au conjoint survivant s'imputent principalement sur le disponible ordinaire si elles sont en toute propriété mais sur l'excédent résultant du disponible spécial entre époux si elles ne sont qu'en usufruit."
it can be "decrypted". It's basically about two types of "quotas" when making a will ( quotité disponible ordinaire + le disponible spécial entre époux) when making a will, and the order and limits in which they have to be used.
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Note added at 1 hr (2022-01-24 12:46:56 GMT)
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oops
It's basically about two types of "quotas" when making a will ( quotité disponible ordinaire + le disponible spécial entre époux), and the order and limits in which they have to be used/allocated to beneficiaries.
Note from asker:
| Thanks. Yes, it's not that difficult to understand, just Byzantine. Just as well, as it's my job to translate this stuff all the time. I'm slightly pickled about all these suggestions, as I think in fact it *is* to do with mathematical calculations, ultimately. |
52 mins
Jennifer Levey
Chile
Chile
Native in English
Specializes in field
Chile
Human-scale Globalization
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
128
reconcile
The quoted para from the ST is merely explains, in rather general terms, the origins of a problem that has to be solved, derived from a hiatus between the legal requirements and the deceased's intentions. combiner in that paragraph refers to the need to reconcile those conflicting sets of requirements with a view to satisfying all the beneficiaries as well as the law.
The 'bit which follows' - although 'claire comme de la boue', sets out the rules by which that reconciliation will be achieved.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2022-01-24 14:38:35 GMT)
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https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reconcil...
reconcile
verb [ T ]
to find a way in which two situations or beliefs that are opposed to each other can agree and exist together:
The 'bit which follows' - although 'claire comme de la boue', sets out the rules by which that reconciliation will be achieved.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2022-01-24 14:38:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/reconcil...
reconcile
verb [ T ]
to find a way in which two situations or beliefs that are opposed to each other can agree and exist together:
Note from asker:
| Thanks... yes, I think this is a good word... but it may possibly be in its accountancy-related meaning that it applies: the "rules" are describing a mathematical protocol. |
Discussion
I find "to reconcile" to be the most "off-mark"!
When you "reconcile" say invoices and payments, you have two sets of data that have to agree with each other. I don't see anything of that kind in this ST.
There are not two sets of rules that have to agree with each other - all I can see is two mutually independent sets of rules that have be applied together.
2) re the answers so far: I am pretty much persuaded that the point of this part of the division is about mathematics ultimately. Hence we see, in the règles à suivre, mentions of "dans les limites", "le plafond", "s'imputent". These, it seems to me, are all describing a set of mathematical rules which must be applied when we do our "combinaison". The rules in fact no doubt constitute the combinaison.
If so, Jennifer's suggestion of "reconcile" may be closest to the mark, connoting the kind of things accountants get up to...