Nov 25, 2021 11:41
2 yrs ago
37 viewers *
French term
seuil de l'usure
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
Writ of summons
"- 100 000,00 € arrêtée au 30 juin 2019, augmentée à compter de cette date des intérêts au taux contractuel, soit le seuil de l'usure applicable aux découverts en compte de personnes morales minoré de 0,05%, jusqu'à parfait règlement,"
I've put "maximum permitted lending rate". No sign of it in any translation locations, but from appropriate French sites this is the meaning. Strikingly odd expression, aka "accepted usury threshold"?.
"- 100 000,00 € arrêtée au 30 juin 2019, augmentée à compter de cette date des intérêts au taux contractuel, soit le seuil de l'usure applicable aux découverts en compte de personnes morales minoré de 0,05%, jusqu'à parfait règlement,"
I've put "maximum permitted lending rate". No sign of it in any translation locations, but from appropriate French sites this is the meaning. Strikingly odd expression, aka "accepted usury threshold"?.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 4 +5 | usury threshold |
philgoddard
|
| 4 | maximum usury rate |
Conor McAuley
|
| 3 | extortionate lending rate cap; exborbitant interest rate threshold, BrE |
Adrian MM.
|
Proposed translations
+5
2 hrs
philgoddard
United States
United States
Native in English
Specializes in field
United States
Six languages into flawless English
Native in: English
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 4 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
286
Selected
usury threshold
I think a literal translation works perfectly well, and is the simplest solution. This is from Italy:
Usury "threshold" rates defined for lending operations for the third quarter of 2020
The department of the Treasury Directorate in charge of preventing illegal use of the financial system today announced the new "threshold rates" for lending operations, valid between July and September 2020.
http://www.dt.mef.gov.it/en/news/2020/usura_26062020.html
And the US:
...design comparing loans just above and below the usury threshold, we did not have enough loans with interest rates close to the threshold to use this ...
http://www.google.com/url?q=https://ccl.yale.edu/sites/defau...
Usury "threshold" rates defined for lending operations for the third quarter of 2020
The department of the Treasury Directorate in charge of preventing illegal use of the financial system today announced the new "threshold rates" for lending operations, valid between July and September 2020.
http://www.dt.mef.gov.it/en/news/2020/usura_26062020.html
And the US:
...design comparing loans just above and below the usury threshold, we did not have enough loans with interest rates close to the threshold to use this ...
http://www.google.com/url?q=https://ccl.yale.edu/sites/defau...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Francois Boye
3 mins
|
| agree |
Tony M
: Ni plus, ni moins !
10 mins
|
| agree |
SafeTex
: yes, go for the translation closest to the source language if it works
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Yolanda Broad
5 hrs
|
| agree |
Eliza Hall
1 day 6 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
7 mins
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Irish, British, Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
210
maximum usury rate
maximum rate under legislation governing usury
Usury Rate Definition | Law Insiderhttps://www.lawinsider.com › dictionary › usury-rate
In this example, our loan originates in the State of New York, which has a ***maximum Usury Rate*** of 16% which we will use. We are furnishing this opinion in ...
Confusury Unraveled: New York - Joshua Stein PLLChttp://real-estate-law.com › PDF › Confusury_Unr...PDF
by J STEIN · 2001 · Cited by 4 — See GOLS 5-501(1) (***maximum usury rate*** 6% unless oth- erwise provided in Banking Law § 14-a); Banking Law. $ 14-a(1) (16% maximum usury rate for purposes of ...
7 pages
And a UK reference:
The Truth In Lending Act and Variable-Rate Mortgages and ...https://www.cambridge.org › core › journals › article › tr...
by JM Landers · 1976 · Cited by 17 — The British experience with variable-rate mortgages suggests that the ... if the mortgage is issued at the then ***maximum usury rate*** of 9 percent, and
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Note added at 20 mins (2021-11-25 12:01:37 GMT)
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Mpoma: no problem, you're welcome! It's a bit of an old-fashioned word...and concept, dare I say it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2021-11-25 12:39:27 GMT)
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https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi...
Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2021-11-25 12:40:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
...this bit seems quite insane:
"Following the recent changes, loans (excluding, however, overdraft facilities) made to companies carrying out commercial, industrial, professional or agricultural activities are excluded from the scope of the usury legislation. In addition, all criminal sanctions relating to these loans have been abolished."
Usury Rate Definition | Law Insiderhttps://www.lawinsider.com › dictionary › usury-rate
In this example, our loan originates in the State of New York, which has a ***maximum Usury Rate*** of 16% which we will use. We are furnishing this opinion in ...
Confusury Unraveled: New York - Joshua Stein PLLChttp://real-estate-law.com › PDF › Confusury_Unr...PDF
by J STEIN · 2001 · Cited by 4 — See GOLS 5-501(1) (***maximum usury rate*** 6% unless oth- erwise provided in Banking Law § 14-a); Banking Law. $ 14-a(1) (16% maximum usury rate for purposes of ...
7 pages
And a UK reference:
The Truth In Lending Act and Variable-Rate Mortgages and ...https://www.cambridge.org › core › journals › article › tr...
by JM Landers · 1976 · Cited by 17 — The British experience with variable-rate mortgages suggests that the ... if the mortgage is issued at the then ***maximum usury rate*** of 9 percent, and
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 mins (2021-11-25 12:01:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Mpoma: no problem, you're welcome! It's a bit of an old-fashioned word...and concept, dare I say it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 58 mins (2021-11-25 12:39:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi...
Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 59 mins (2021-11-25 12:40:52 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
...this bit seems quite insane:
"Following the recent changes, loans (excluding, however, overdraft facilities) made to companies carrying out commercial, industrial, professional or agricultural activities are excluded from the scope of the usury legislation. In addition, all criminal sanctions relating to these loans have been abolished."
Note from asker:
| Well-spotted, thanks. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Saeed Najmi
24 mins
|
|
Thanks Saeed! Nice to see you back.
|
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| agree |
Steve Robbie
: "Usury rate" - "maximum" isn't needed and IMO doesn't entirely make sense - the usury rate is actually the *lowest* rate that would constitute usury.
44 mins
|
|
Thanks Steve, for the agree and for setting me right! See new reference.
|
|
| neutral |
Tony M
: Do note it is certainly not 'maximum' — this is referring to the threshold above which it would be considered as 'usury'
1 hr
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|
Please see my note added at 58 mins: usury rate or usury limit.
|
|
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I agree with Tony, and "rate" and "limit" don't work either in my opinion. "Rate" could be any figure, and "limit" could be an upper limit.
2 hrs
|
|
Yes, of course. See my Note at 58 minutes, before your answer, with respect: "https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi... Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve.
|
|
| disagree |
Francois Boye
: a threshold isn't a maximum
2 hrs
|
|
Yes, of course. See my Note at 58 minutes: "https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi... Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve.
|
|
| neutral |
Emmanuella
: Seuil = threshold
3 hrs
|
|
Yes, of course. See my Note at 58 minutes: "https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi... Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve.
|
|
| disagree |
Eliza Hall
: What François said, plus this: usury is a crime, so there's no "maximum" rate of it that's permitted. The threshold here is between legal interest rates and illegal ones (usurious ones).
1 day 8 hrs
|
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Yes, of course. See my Note at 58 minutes: "https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-107-2019?transi... Usury rate or usury limit appear to be the correct terms, thanks Steve."
|
1 hr
Adrian MM.
Austria
Austria
Native in English
Specializes in field
Austria
Retd.T&I, Barrister & Austro-Advokat
Native in: English (Variants: British, Scottish) 
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish, French to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
359
extortionate lending rate cap; exborbitant interest rate threshold, BrE
usure: usury; lending at an unconscionable rate of interest, gulp, Bridge
wear and tear, Navarre
exorbitant / extortionate interest, US 'loan sharking' :Ecin, comm and fin dictionary, Les langes pour tous
taux de l'usure : usury rate > L'Anglais de l'Expert-Comptable
The English law term started changing during my 'grave study of commercial / business law' around 1975 on the back of the UK Consumer Credit Act 1974 form usury to extortionate lending rates and bargains.
My UK and Anglo-Irish Solicitor friends back in London once metioned to me the terms either of extortionate or exorbitant in connection with overcharging translation agencies, but I'm afraid at my age I can't remember which - hence the middling confidence - cut to: WRITTEN QUESTION P-4157/00 by Mauro Nobilia (UEN) to the Commission. Exorbitant interest rate threshold in respect of bank interest in Italy.
wear and tear, Navarre
exorbitant / extortionate interest, US 'loan sharking' :Ecin, comm and fin dictionary, Les langes pour tous
taux de l'usure : usury rate > L'Anglais de l'Expert-Comptable
The English law term started changing during my 'grave study of commercial / business law' around 1975 on the back of the UK Consumer Credit Act 1974 form usury to extortionate lending rates and bargains.
My UK and Anglo-Irish Solicitor friends back in London once metioned to me the terms either of extortionate or exorbitant in connection with overcharging translation agencies, but I'm afraid at my age I can't remember which - hence the middling confidence - cut to: WRITTEN QUESTION P-4157/00 by Mauro Nobilia (UEN) to the Commission. Exorbitant interest rate threshold in respect of bank interest in Italy.
Example sentence:
> the statutory interest rate cap and extortionate rate for money lending stipulated in the Money Lenders Ordinance (Cap. 163) (“MLO”).
The court was hearing a PIL seeking regulation of online lending platforms offering short-term personal loans at exorbitant interest rates
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
philgoddard
: I think your second suggestion is correct, but why not just say usury?
1 hr
|
|
as mentioned, usury had been overtaken in the UK about half a century ago by extortionate credit bargains and exorbitant interest rates, the adjectives being possibly better understandable in English-speaking countries than nasty 'usurious'.
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Discussion
But if you can't shoehorn "usury" into this particular sentence, you could perhaps say that it is at the very maximum permitted rate to retain the hint of censure.
Only applies to certain types of loans.
"Chapitre IV : Dispositions communes au crédit à la consommation et au crédit immobilier (Articles L314-1 à L314-31)
[...]
Article L. 314-6
Constitue un prêt usuraire tout prêt conventionnel consenti à un taux effectif global qui excède, au moment où il est consenti, de plus du tiers, le taux effectif moyen pratiqué au cours du trimestre précédent par les établissements de crédit et les sociétés de financement pour des opérations de même nature comportant des risques analogues, telles que définies par l'autorité administrative après avis du Comité consultatif du secteur financier."
"Following the recent changes, loans (excluding, however, overdraft facilities) made to companies carrying out commercial, industrial, professional or agricultural activities are excluded from the scope of the usury legislation. In addition, all criminal sanctions relating to these loans have been abolished."
Google tells me clearly that usury laws still exist in many US states, so over there, even consumers will probably be familiar with the concept - or at least ought to be, if they're inclined to read the small print of their lending agreements.
In the UK, "usury laws" as such seem to be obsolete, so I wouldn't trust British consumers to understand the idea. I'd still expect lawyers and bankers to understand the concept, though - references turn up in various speeches and reports on the Bank of England website, for instance. https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/search#?cludoquery=usury&clu...
"Usury rates" also get a mention in this EU Directive, albeit only in the recitals:
https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN-FR/TXT/?from=EN&u...