Oct 12, 2021 16:28
2 yrs ago
27 viewers *
French term
schéma corruptif
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
SWISS French legalese.
This is a case about alleged corruption of foreign public officials.
"En l'espèce, à teneur de l'ordonnance pénale du 1 janvier 2018, il est reproché au prévenu AAA d'avoir participé intentionnellement à un schéma corruptif entre la société allemande BBB et son père CCC, en acceptant de percevoir pour le compte de ce dernier un montant de USD 1,0 million le 2 mars 2012."
"Le but de ce schéma corruptif était de favoriser la conclusion d'un contrat de joint-venture entre la société BBB et la société DDD, dont CCC était le président du conseil d'administration."
I thought of "corruption plot" or "corruption plan", but nothing much came up. There's probably a very common expression which my brain is currently too befuddled to retrieve.
This is a case about alleged corruption of foreign public officials.
"En l'espèce, à teneur de l'ordonnance pénale du 1 janvier 2018, il est reproché au prévenu AAA d'avoir participé intentionnellement à un schéma corruptif entre la société allemande BBB et son père CCC, en acceptant de percevoir pour le compte de ce dernier un montant de USD 1,0 million le 2 mars 2012."
"Le but de ce schéma corruptif était de favoriser la conclusion d'un contrat de joint-venture entre la société BBB et la société DDD, dont CCC était le président du conseil d'administration."
I thought of "corruption plot" or "corruption plan", but nothing much came up. There's probably a very common expression which my brain is currently too befuddled to retrieve.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +4 | corrupt scheme |
mrrafe
|
| 4 +1 | corruption scheme |
Conor McAuley
|
| 4 | corruption-inducing scheme |
Daryo
|
| 3 +1 | potentially corrupt scheme |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
|
| 3 | corrupt set up |
SafeTex
|
Proposed translations
+4
6 mins
Selected
corrupt scheme
https://www.cleveland.com/open/2021/07/feds-lay-out-corrupt-...
Or, less commonly, corruption scheme - https://guide.iacrc.org/potential-scheme-corruption/
Or, less commonly, corruption scheme - https://guide.iacrc.org/potential-scheme-corruption/
Note from asker:
| This may well be, de facto, the best that can be hoped, but I'm slightly dubious because the definition in TLFi says "Qui a la propriété de corrompre" for <i>corruptif</i>. This solution doesn't really convey that idea. |
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
AllegroTrans
: Agreed, but it would be instructive to find an English language corroboration of your suggestion from Switzerland
16 mins
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Merci Trans.
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| agree |
philgoddard
: Or you could say "conspiracy" and leave out "corrupt". I don't understand Allegro's comment.
21 mins
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Merci Phil. I think Allegro means a Swiss corroboration using EN. Having said that, I think corruption and conspiracy are two distinct things: a conspiratorial agreement could be too simple to constitute corruption, e.g. hand someone the bullets gratis.
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| agree |
Eliza Hall
: Re "propriété de corrompre," FR makes finer distinctions than EN legalese. We would say corrupt scheme for this, even though the "propriété de..." nuance is lost.
21 hrs
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merci Eliza
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
2 days 19 hrs
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merci Yvonne
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
1 hr
corrupt set up
I'm not convinced by "corrupt scheme" as a scheme is a plan in English but "schéma" here is a diagram (set up/organisation)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
mrrafe
: Setup isn't a legal term, if that's required. Arrangement? https://www.voanews.com/a/usa_trump-impeachment_democrats-tr... / agreed, legal mayn't be required
4 mins
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Hello mrrafe. it's been said before that while a charge should well contain the correct legal term, the conclusions and pleadings are prone to much more emotive language. Ghits for "illegal setup" do bear me out but often in newspapers not behind paywalls
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: The asker's text strongly suggests that a formal, legal term is needed (an offence known to Swiss law); "set up" comes nowhere near to that requirement
1 hr
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See my answer above to mrraffe please. And please show me that "scheme", which you agreed with is a formal legal term in English
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3 hrs
corruption-inducing scheme
a scheme that is not in itself always corrupt, it can be a perfectly legitimate arrangement, BUT may lead to corruption in some cases.
ex: paying "finder's fees" / "consulatnt;s fees" might be a perfectly regular arrangement, but in some cases it could lead to corruption.
samples: https://www.google.com/search?q="corruption-inducing scheme"
ex: paying "finder's fees" / "consulatnt;s fees" might be a perfectly regular arrangement, but in some cases it could lead to corruption.
samples: https://www.google.com/search?q="corruption-inducing scheme"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: One Indian reference to the term used "loosely" doesn't really support your suggestion in its SWISS context
12 mins
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???? The ONLY relevance of the "Swiss context" is to get the exact intended meaning in the country where the term is used i.e. Switzerland // Where else a similar / same term exists or not has no longer anything to do "Swiss context".
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+1
4 hrs
Conor McAuley
France
France
Native in English
Specializes in field
France
Excellence, Expertise & Experience
Native in: English (Variants: Wales / Welsh, UK, Scottish, Irish, British)
Works in: French to English, English
Related KudoZ points
:
210
corruption scheme
I think, very simply, that the only word that collocates comfortably with corruption in this context is scheme: it works stylistically, it works functionally.
As we know, Swiss French sounds unusual to people who hear and read French (France) 99.99% of the time, like me, but even given that, the use of the word "schéma" here hints at a calque from English -- a "schéma" is a diagram in French (France).
Perhaps the writer is bilingual.
The term is very rare -- 515 search matches only.
Hope this helps.
As we know, Swiss French sounds unusual to people who hear and read French (France) 99.99% of the time, like me, but even given that, the use of the word "schéma" here hints at a calque from English -- a "schéma" is a diagram in French (France).
Perhaps the writer is bilingual.
The term is very rare -- 515 search matches only.
Hope this helps.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
mrrafe
: Agree as to scheme. In EN, at least, corrupt is idiomatic while corruption isn't.
2 days 18 hrs
|
+1
15 hrs
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Works in field
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English 
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
451
potentially corrupt scheme
The term appears to be rare and does not mean corrupt so much as having the potential to corrupt, that may lead to corruption. My suggestion is intended to be a practical solution, one that hopefully matches the meaning and reads as naturally as possible.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/corruptif#:~:text=, IVE, adj...
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Note added at 15 hrs (2021-10-13 08:04:43 GMT)
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Rare. Qui a la propriété de corrompre*, notamment par de l'argent :
... Fraisier avait fait venir chez lui la loueuse de chaises, et la soumettait à sa conversation corruptive, aux ruses de sa puissance chicanière, à laquelle il était difficile de résister. Balzac, Le Cousin Pons,1847, p. 274.
Rem. Attesté ds Lar. 19e-20e, Littré, Guérin 1892 et Quillet 1965.
Prononc. Seules transcr. ds Land. 1834 qui transcrit [rr] double et ds Littré qui transcrit : ko-ru-ptif, fém. -pti-v' avec [ʀ] simple. Cf. corrupteur. Étymol. et Hist. 1370-82 « qui détruit » (N. Oresme, Livre du Ciel et du Monde, éd. Menut-Denomy, Livre II, chap. 16, fo121a: Fredeur [...] est une qualité active et corruptive de chaleur), attest. isolée en ce sens; av. 1382 au fig. (Id., ibid. ds Meunier, Essai sur la vie et les ouvrages de Nicole Oresme, p. 170 : Chose juste n'est pas corruptive (...) de cité) − 1534 (P. Fabri ds Hug.) repris au xixes. : av. 1821 (J. de Maistre ds Lar. 19e). Empr. au lat. tardif corruptivus « qui peut corrompre ». Fréq. abs. littér. : 1."
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Note added at 15 hrs (2021-10-13 08:06:43 GMT)
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The asker may or may not consider this point worthy of note, but there is a subtle difference between a scheme that is corrupt and one that opens the door to corruption or corrupt practices.
https://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/corruptif#:~:text=, IVE, adj...
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Note added at 15 hrs (2021-10-13 08:04:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Rare. Qui a la propriété de corrompre*, notamment par de l'argent :
... Fraisier avait fait venir chez lui la loueuse de chaises, et la soumettait à sa conversation corruptive, aux ruses de sa puissance chicanière, à laquelle il était difficile de résister. Balzac, Le Cousin Pons,1847, p. 274.
Rem. Attesté ds Lar. 19e-20e, Littré, Guérin 1892 et Quillet 1965.
Prononc. Seules transcr. ds Land. 1834 qui transcrit [rr] double et ds Littré qui transcrit : ko-ru-ptif, fém. -pti-v' avec [ʀ] simple. Cf. corrupteur. Étymol. et Hist. 1370-82 « qui détruit » (N. Oresme, Livre du Ciel et du Monde, éd. Menut-Denomy, Livre II, chap. 16, fo121a: Fredeur [...] est une qualité active et corruptive de chaleur), attest. isolée en ce sens; av. 1382 au fig. (Id., ibid. ds Meunier, Essai sur la vie et les ouvrages de Nicole Oresme, p. 170 : Chose juste n'est pas corruptive (...) de cité) − 1534 (P. Fabri ds Hug.) repris au xixes. : av. 1821 (J. de Maistre ds Lar. 19e). Empr. au lat. tardif corruptivus « qui peut corrompre ». Fréq. abs. littér. : 1."
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Note added at 15 hrs (2021-10-13 08:06:43 GMT)
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The asker may or may not consider this point worthy of note, but there is a subtle difference between a scheme that is corrupt and one that opens the door to corruption or corrupt practices.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Daryo
: given that it's a variation on my own answer, can only agree // corrupt vs potentially corrupt or corruption-inducing does make a difference.
7 hrs
|
| neutral |
mrrafe
: For whatever reason, the ST doesn't pull any punches in calling the scheme corrupt. (Perhaps it's an indictment which is understood to be only an accusation,) I wouldn't make the transltion ^translation^ less judgmental than the ST.
2 days 7 hrs
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Discussion
As Allegro says, Switzerland could be different, but the details of your ST do depict what we in US would call a corrupt scheme.
In Switzerland