Feb 15, 2021 17:47
3 yrs ago
31 viewers *
Spanish term
Argentina
Quality, Accuracy, Punctuality
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, English
literatos extranjerizantes
Spanish to English
Art/Literary
Poetry & Literature
From a contemporary work on Argentine literature, the complete sentence is as follows:
La cuestión, decía Echegaray, era ponderar el libro en una justa medida, pues tanto los nostálgicos del rancho y el chiripá como los “literatos extranjerizantes” lo habían colocado, por razones opuestas, en alturas inmerecidas omitiendo lo esencial: su carácter de literatura de clase.
I know that literato is "man of literature" but "men of literature" is a little clunkier and "men of literature with a fondness for foreign influence" even worse...
(I also welcome any suggestions for "literatura de clase" -right now, the best I've come up with is working-class literature, but perhaps there is something better. It is a Marxist concept.)
La cuestión, decía Echegaray, era ponderar el libro en una justa medida, pues tanto los nostálgicos del rancho y el chiripá como los “literatos extranjerizantes” lo habían colocado, por razones opuestas, en alturas inmerecidas omitiendo lo esencial: su carácter de literatura de clase.
I know that literato is "man of literature" but "men of literature" is a little clunkier and "men of literature with a fondness for foreign influence" even worse...
(I also welcome any suggestions for "literatura de clase" -right now, the best I've come up with is working-class literature, but perhaps there is something better. It is a Marxist concept.)
Proposed translations
(English)
Proposed translations
+5
15 mins
Pablo Waldman
Argentina
Argentina
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Argentina
Resourceful, creative, passionate
Native in: Spanish (Variant: Latin American) 
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Related KudoZ points
:
12
Selected
foreignizing literati
Definition of foreignize:
to make foreign: give a foreign character or flavor to
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreignize
Definition of literati:
1: the educated class
2: persons interested in literature or the arts
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literati
«In any event, Victoria was accused of being extranjerizante, a "foreignizer," because she preferred to write in French».
Victoria Ocampo: Against the Wind and the Tide
By Doris Meyer
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=J6FIDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA52&lp...
to make foreign: give a foreign character or flavor to
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreignize
Definition of literati:
1: the educated class
2: persons interested in literature or the arts
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literati
«In any event, Victoria was accused of being extranjerizante, a "foreignizer," because she preferred to write in French».
Victoria Ocampo: Against the Wind and the Tide
By Doris Meyer
https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=J6FIDQAAQBAJ&pg=PA52&lp...
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Barbara Cochran, MFA
1 min
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Thank you, Barbara
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| agree |
Katarina Peters
6 mins
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Thank you, Katarina
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| agree |
matt robinson
: Well, I'd never heard of "foreignizing" before today. I mustn't have been paying attention to the translation theory.
26 mins
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Me neither until I found the definition in Merriam-Webster's online dictionary. Thank you.
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: no, I don't believe it applies here?/They are not writers so can do no "foreignizing" of texts. It's the wrong word here imo and would not be understood. A false friend. You're also misunderstanding literati then!
17 hrs
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They're literati who talk and write about literature and mold literary taste at a certain time, having a foreignizing influence (in the sense of making foreign) on national literature. That's the way I understand it.
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| agree |
neilmac
: Seems appropriate for the Arg. literary context of the query.
17 hrs
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Thank you, Neil
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| agree |
Thayenga
20 hrs
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Thank you, Thayenga
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
17 mins
foreign-centered literati
I think literati fits well. foreign-focused or foreign-centered (I went with US spelling. For UK it would be foreign-centred)
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I DO agree with your understanding, just not the wording...
4 days
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-2
1 hr
Yudith Madrazo
Cuba
Cuba
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Cuba
English to Spanish translator.
Native in: Spanish 
Works in: English to Spanish, Spanish to English
Foreign ways-lover-writers
My try.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Carol Gullidge
: Sorry but this makes no sense and you provide no explanation :((
2 hrs
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| disagree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: sorry, but this is nonsense
15 hrs
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+1
8 hrs
David Hollywood
Native in English
worked for int. orgs (IMF, OAS, IDB)
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, German to English
Related KudoZ points
:
136
foreign-leaning literati
Filipp Filippovich Vigel was a Russian noble of Swedish extraction who served in the foreign ... They are considered unreliable in so far as they concern the Western-leaning literati such as Nikolai Gogol and Pyotr Chaadayev.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2021-02-16 02:41:48 GMT)
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you might also consider "foreign language leaning"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
patinba
13 hrs
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| neutral |
Yvonne Gallagher
: I DO agree with your understanding, just not the wording...
4 days
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2 days 20 mins
overseas-adoring writers
These writers are deemed to be mistaken in their foreign-based focus, hence "adoring" shows the give inordinate attention to that camp.
4 days
Marcelo González
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
PhD in Translation Studies
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: Spanish to English, English to Spanish
Related KudoZ points
:
44
foreign-centric literati
Though 'foreignizing' and 'foreignization' are discussed extensively in translation theory, I'll join those who cast doubt on its applicability here, where 'literatos extranjerizantes' appears to refer to those literati who favor that which is foreign, rather than referring to those who produce texts with a foreignizing effect.
Euro-centric, Arab-centric >>> foreign-centric
Something along the lines of 'literati with a foreign-centric orientation' may also be an option.
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Note added at 4 days (2021-02-20 13:39:43 GMT)
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I also agree with David and Matt, as my suggestion here draws from that of the latter.
I hope this helps :-)
Euro-centric, Arab-centric >>> foreign-centric
Something along the lines of 'literati with a foreign-centric orientation' may also be an option.
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Note added at 4 days (2021-02-20 13:39:43 GMT)
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I also agree with David and Matt, as my suggestion here draws from that of the latter.
I hope this helps :-)
Reference comments
32 mins
Toni Castano
Spain
Spain
Native in Spanish
Specializes in field
Spain
PER ASPERA AD ASTRA
Native in: Spanish
Works in: German to Spanish, Spanish to German, English to Spanish, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Reference:
"Extranjerizante" in the Argentine literature
This link supplies some help to understand the notion of “extranjerizante” within the context of Argentine literature of the last century.
https://www.borges.pitt.edu/bsol/bsi7.php
Borges: a Writer on the Edge
THE ADVENTURE OF MARTíN FIERRO:
THE AVANT-GARDE AND CRIOLLISMO
(…)
The debate over language is one chapter in the vast and, for Argentine intellectuals, obsessive question concerning cultural tradition. In the first literary questionnaire organised by Martín Fierro, the definition of a 'national' was given as one who had an 'Argentine sensibility and mentality'. The question of cultural nationalism and by extension, of cosmopolitanism, divided the intellectual field along distinct class lines. The social writers of the Boedo group rarely mentioned the question, or when they did so, it was to accuse the avant-garde of being truly extranjerizante (following foreign models in an unquestioning fashion). The members of Martín Fierro, as well as declaring themselves to be heirs of this 'natural' cultural identity, threw the argument back at Boedo, accusing them of being linguistically and culturally foreign.
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Note added at 18 hrs (2021-02-16 12:31:05 GMT)
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"Extranjerizante" in the DRAE dictionary. Yes, it is included. Please see here:
https://dle.rae.es/extranjerizante?m=form
extranjerizante
1. adj. Que tiende a lo extranjero o lo imita. Una actitud extranjerizante. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.
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Note added at 19 hrs (2021-02-16 13:26:44 GMT)
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An additional note, this time from the Merriam Webster dictionary:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreignize
foreignize transitive verb
Definition of foreignize
to make foreign : give a foreign character or flavor to
concealing fact under a foreignized terminology
So it´s obvious then that 1) the infinitive "foreignize" does exist in English and 2) its meaning is similar to the Spanish counterpart "extranjerizar" (infinitive) and "extranjerizante" (adjective).
The debate remains open and I believe Pablo´s suggestion might be reasonable in an academic context (despite the fact we still don´t know the context!).
https://www.borges.pitt.edu/bsol/bsi7.php
Borges: a Writer on the Edge
THE ADVENTURE OF MARTíN FIERRO:
THE AVANT-GARDE AND CRIOLLISMO
(…)
The debate over language is one chapter in the vast and, for Argentine intellectuals, obsessive question concerning cultural tradition. In the first literary questionnaire organised by Martín Fierro, the definition of a 'national' was given as one who had an 'Argentine sensibility and mentality'. The question of cultural nationalism and by extension, of cosmopolitanism, divided the intellectual field along distinct class lines. The social writers of the Boedo group rarely mentioned the question, or when they did so, it was to accuse the avant-garde of being truly extranjerizante (following foreign models in an unquestioning fashion). The members of Martín Fierro, as well as declaring themselves to be heirs of this 'natural' cultural identity, threw the argument back at Boedo, accusing them of being linguistically and culturally foreign.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2021-02-16 12:31:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"Extranjerizante" in the DRAE dictionary. Yes, it is included. Please see here:
https://dle.rae.es/extranjerizante?m=form
extranjerizante
1. adj. Que tiende a lo extranjero o lo imita. Una actitud extranjerizante. Apl. a pers., u. t. c. s.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2021-02-16 13:26:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
An additional note, this time from the Merriam Webster dictionary:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/foreignize
foreignize transitive verb
Definition of foreignize
to make foreign : give a foreign character or flavor to
concealing fact under a foreignized terminology
So it´s obvious then that 1) the infinitive "foreignize" does exist in English and 2) its meaning is similar to the Spanish counterpart "extranjerizar" (infinitive) and "extranjerizante" (adjective).
The debate remains open and I believe Pablo´s suggestion might be reasonable in an academic context (despite the fact we still don´t know the context!).
Peer comments on this reference comment:
| agree |
philgoddard
12 hrs
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Thanks Phil. Just still wondering if "foreignizing" is a comprehensible term for the English audience. What do you think?
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| agree |
neilmac
: So, Pablo's "foreignizing" would be correct in this Argentine context. Not the same as its meaning/use in general translation theory.
17 hrs
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Hi Neil (hope you´re well). Yes, this seems to be the case in the Argentine/Argentinian/Argentinean :-) context. My only doubt is if "foreignizing" is a comprehensible term for the English audience. Do you think it is?
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| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: yes, that is a different meaning than the usual translation theory one//and no, most English speakers would not know the term at all// I think 1 word doesn't work here. Rather, foreign-influenced literati or aficionados of foreign literature or similar
18 hrs
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Many thanks for your clarification, Yvonne. I was very sceptical about "foreignizing" being used in a general (non academic/scholar) context. But then, what can be a (short) alternative? //j Okay, thanks again for your input.
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| agree |
Pablo Waldman
: While we await an answer about the context from the asker, I believe that the sample paragraph provided suggests the text is not intended for a general audience but one similar to the book by Doris Meyer I have referenced.
19 hrs
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I agree with you, Pablo. What you say it´s just logical. Let´s see what the asker has to say though.
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Discussion