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Glossary entry

Spanish term or phrase:

Señores

English translation:

To

Added to glossary by Edwin Dott
Oct 6, 2020 10:08
3 yrs ago
66 viewers *
Spanish term

Señores

Spanish to English Bus/Financial Telecom(munications) Glossary of technical ter
Where this is found at the top of a hand-delivered letter, e.g.:

Señores
Company name
Presente.-

I know this question has already been asked here in ProZ, but I didn't find they provided a satisfactory answer. Some suggested "Gentlemen" or "Dear Sirs" - the problem with this is that in English, in this day and age, it is glaringly sexist and un-politically correct, while in spanish the term embodies both male and female genders. And in plural, it seems a bit odd to write "Madams" as in "Gentlemen/Madams", and is not a formula used in English either. Any other suggestions to deal with this..?
Proposed translations (English)
4 To
5 Dear / To
3 +1 For your attention
4 Messrs.
3 To whom it may concern
3 Name of the Company
3 -1 Board of commitee members
References
Ref.

Discussion

María Marta Semberoiz Oct 6, 2020:
@Edwin, although in theory, the Spanish masculine embodies all genders, this is widely under discussion these days... For the majority of us, "Señores" sounds "glaringly sexist" as well, so what you feel with the English Messrs is true with the Spanish Señores.
Tigranuhi Khachatryan Oct 6, 2020:
For those who say that Señores can't be translated as Messrs. Should change Señores to Señores y señoras in the original text and if you can't change because we are just translators, you can't judge another example from https://wordxltemplates.com/banking-correspondence-letters/
Banking Correspondence Letters
MAY 10, 2018by ADMINin LETTERS/EMAILS
Request Letter to Bank for Opening a Current Account
Date: DD/MM/YYYY
Manager
[Bank Name] Ltd,
Dear Sir,
We wish to open a current account in the name and style of [Company name] a registered partnership concern. Please let us know what formalities are to be completed.
Yours faithfully,
[Name here]

Reply from Bank
[Bank Name]
City, State
Date: DD/MM/YYYY
Messrs [Company Name here]
City, State
philgoddard Oct 6, 2020:
The addressee, singular, is a company. I don't think we need any more context.
Toni Castano Oct 6, 2020:
@Edwin Can you post more context? Who are the addressees?
philgoddard Oct 6, 2020:
Because it implies that the company doesn't employ women, or that they're all secretaries who don't matter. Surely this is obvious.

Also, it sounds weird and old fashioned, like putting Esquire after someone's name.
patinba Oct 6, 2020:
@Phil If precedinga list of surnames, of course , but how is addressing a letter to "Messrs Tesco" sexist?
philgoddard Oct 6, 2020:
Patinba You say you can't understand why Messrs is sexist. It sounds like you may not be aware that it's short for Messieurs, which is the masculine plural. It means "Sirs", and implies that the letter is addressed to a group of men.
patinba Oct 6, 2020:
@Edwin What you have posted as context is the receiver's address, which precedes the salutation, and these are treated differently.
Edwin Dott (asker) Oct 6, 2020:
Yes, could perhaps leave it out, though I think it looks a bit odd or something missing....
Jane Martin Oct 6, 2020:
@ Edwin How about leaving it out? I am not sure anything would be lost particularly if you have an Estimados Senores following.

Proposed translations

1 hr
Selected

To

Or leave it out.

"Messrs" would have been OK about fifty years ago, but it sounds dated and inappropriate now.
Note from asker:
Yes, perhaps this is a simple solution to it, just to write "To:" and the company name on the next line. Thanks!
Peer comment(s):
disagree William Bowley : I've already suggested 'To' as an option in my answer. Your answer doesn't offer anything different to mine
2 hrs
If you disagree with me, you're disagreeing with yourself! You offered two suggestions, one of which was wrong, but I'll give you an agree anyway.
agree María Marta Semberoiz : Absolutely! Señores/Messrs is inappropriate now.
6 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
7 mins

To whom it may concern

This might work, and it certainly avoids the issues of gender and singular/plural.

I also though "Dear Sir/Madam" might do it, but then that would be weird when followed by the company name.

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Note added at 28 mins (2020-10-06 10:37:05 GMT)
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You could always do "To whom it may concern" at the top and then "Dear Sir/Madam" below ;-)
Note from asker:
Yes perhaps.. But then below the address the same issue is faced with the "Estimados señores:", where it is more common to see the likes of "To whom it may concern,".
Peer comment(s):
agree María Marta Semberoiz
8 hrs
disagree YESHWANT UMRALKAR : Does not gel here. Sounds better as the addressee of a certificate/recommendation/certificate, but not before the Company name.
10 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Dear / To

As the company name follows, you can simply translate as 'Dear' (or 'To'), as an appropriate general greeting to a group within a company.

There is no need to use an archaic or overly wordy alternative (such as 'Gentleman', 'Messrs', Dear Sirs/Madams, etc.) that would seem out of place in current times.
Note from asker:
Yes, perhaps this is a simple solution to it, just to write "To:" and the company name on the next line. I don't think I would put "Dear" here though, this would be more appropriate following the address, where it precedes either a name or Sir/Madam. Thanks.
Peer comment(s):
agree philgoddard : But "Dear" is wrong.
2 mins
disagree Tigranuhi Khachatryan : Señores can't be translated as Dear...
5 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

Name of the Company

Name of the Company, Inc
206 N. Sell Dr.
Richmond, VA 23218

And then:
Dear Hiring Manager.
Dear Customer Support Team.
Dear Human Resources Manager.
Dear Sir or Madam.
Dear [Company Name] Recruiter.
Peer comment(s):
agree María Marta Semberoiz
5 hrs
Muchas gracias, María.
disagree Tigranuhi Khachatryan : The name of company is already written.
7 hrs
Please clarify. I don't know what you mean. This is just an example where "Señores" is omitted as it is totally unnecessary.
Something went wrong...
+1
4 hrs

For your attention

This might work if you're so desperate to avoid traditional forms of address.
Or else I suppose you could just omit the darned thing.
Having said that, I must admit I don't find "Dear Sirs" glaringly sexist or politically incorrect - it's just a formula.
Peer comment(s):
agree Antonella Perazzoni
1 day 3 hrs
Something went wrong...
7 mins

Messrs.

Messrs. plural of Mr.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Messrs.

En español ahora se usa mucho Señores y señoras.
Si usted no quiere poner ladies and gentleman..



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Note added at 7 hrs (2020-10-06 17:32:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I've seen in many letters to use Messrs wirh company name without any surname...
Note from asker:
Not sure this would apply here then, as there is no complement.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Gabriel Ferrero : Messrs is an appellative, it means that it holds the regent's surname. It can't be used without a complement.
21 mins
disagree philgoddard : Edwin has already pointed out that this is sexist.
1 hr
Phil, if must be translated Señores not Señores y señoras, there is no machism or sexism. If this is a rethorical question it's an another issue
agree YESHWANT UMRALKAR : I believe this term suits the best here. Usually it would be Messrs followed by the name of the company. eg. M/s Proctor and Gamble
1 hr
Thanks :)
agree patinba : Fine, followed by a company name it cannot possibly be "sexist" and I dont understand how "Señores" isnt because while masculeine "it embodies both genders"
2 hrs
Thanks:)
neutral Liliana Garfunkel : Messrs is used before the names of two or more men as part of the name of a business. What if the company is run by women only? I agree with philgoddard. This is very "sexist" and old-fashioned.
5 hrs
Liliana, if must be translated Señores not Señores y señoras, there is no machism or sexism. If this is a rethorical question it's an another issue
disagree María Marta Semberoiz : This could have been correct some years ago. Now we know better about detecting and avoiding microsexism.
8 hrs
As I stated above in this case the original text is sexist, but we are just translators ...In Spanish nowadays we say Señores y señoras, diputadis y diputadas... if it is written just Señores its mean Messrs.etc
Something went wrong...
-1
27 mins

Board of commitee members

I am not an expert but "señores" in this context is used to denote legal authority. I don't think that it is addressed to the secretary, the janitor, the company staff, but to people with decisive power and authority: CEOs and the like.

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Note added at 22 hrs (2020-10-07 08:29:54 GMT)
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Board of Committee members or other equivalent terminology would best fit the gender speech diatribe since member is neutral (men and/or women).
Note from asker:
Yes I see your reasoning, but as commented here, there is no specific mention addressing it to a board of directors or such.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Taña Dalglish : Nothing suggests that the letter is addressed to a Board of Directors (top of a hand-delivered letter, e.g.: Señores Company name Presente.-)
18 mins
I understand but it is also true that in large corporations where there is a correspondence and secretary department, letters are entitled to "people in different positions". If I received a letter like that, I would inform the CEO or their delegate
disagree Toni Castano : I agree with Taña. Why Board of Committee here? How do you know that?
4 hrs
Indeed I don't know that. But unless the sender specifies the department or unit to which the letter is addressed I have to assume that it is not for the gardener (nothing wrong with being a gardener).
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Reference comments

11 mins
Reference:

Ref.

https://www.btb.termiumplus.gc.ca/tpv2guides/guides/wrtps/in...
Messrs., Mmes., Mses., Mss.
In the plural, Mr. becomes Messrs. (pronounced MESSers), and Mrs. becomes Mmes. (pronounced mayDAM). For the plural of the abbreviation Ms., either Mses. or Mss. (both pronounced MIZZes) can be used.

With a long list of names, it is better to use the plural forms of these titles.

Messrs. Hamilton, Thorne, Bradley and Clarke addressed the gathering.
The chair introduced Mmes. Thorington, Warner, Black and Sigurdson.
Mses. Jacobson, Garner, Roberts and McGill founded the company.
However, with two or three names, you should simply repeat the honorific.

Mrs. Scarlet, Mrs. Peacock and Mrs. White were all present at the party.
© Public Works and Government Services Canada, 2020
TERMIUM Plus®, the Government of Canada's terminology and linguistic data bank
Writing tools – Writing Tips
A product of the Translation Bureau

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Note added at 47 mins (2020-10-06 10:56:01 GMT)
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Edwin Dott:
1. Aren't you confusing the language pairing? The header is Spanish to English translations, yet your comment to my reference remark (only) is "but there is no name that follows the "Señores", it is just a formal structure of writing letters in Spanish".
2. So, let us have the entire context, then? Are you saying the following?
- Messrs.
- Company Name
- Address
- Hand Delivered (Presente)

- Attention: xxxxx ?


There are quite a number of previous glossary entries, but whether any of these will help is another matter.
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/bus-financial/...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/english-to-spanish/business-comme...
https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/law-general/28...

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Note added at 51 mins (2020-10-06 11:00:13 GMT)
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https://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/law-taxation-c... (another example)
Licenciada
Luis XXXXX
Evaluación Profesional Productos Afines
Presente

Estimada Licenciada:


In fact, Jane has just made a suggestion which is an option discussed elsewhere in one of the previous links posted where it says "leave it out" (omit it).
Note from asker:
Thanks. But there is no name that follows the "Señores", it is just a formal structure of writing letters in Spanish.
Not sure why you say this (1), the letter is in Spanish, translating it into English, as per the language pair here. So no confusion on my part in this regard.
Something went wrong...
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