French term
valeurs et choses
4 +6 | securities and valuables | Francois Boye |
3 -1 | valuables and chattels | Adrian MM. |
3 -1 | values and items | Lisa Rosengard |
Non-PRO (2): TechLawDC, Yvonne Gallagher
When entering new questions, KudoZ askers are given an opportunity* to classify the difficulty of their questions as 'easy' or 'pro'. If you feel a question marked 'easy' should actually be marked 'pro', and if you have earned more than 20 KudoZ points, you can click the "Vote PRO" button to recommend that change.
How to tell the difference between "easy" and "pro" questions:
An easy question is one that any bilingual person would be able to answer correctly. (Or in the case of monolingual questions, an easy question is one that any native speaker of the language would be able to answer correctly.)
A pro question is anything else... in other words, any question that requires knowledge or skills that are specialized (even slightly).
Another way to think of the difficulty levels is this: an easy question is one that deals with everyday conversation. A pro question is anything else.
When deciding between easy and pro, err on the side of pro. Most questions will be pro.
* Note: non-member askers are not given the option of entering 'pro' questions; the only way for their questions to be classified as 'pro' is for a ProZ.com member or members to re-classify it.
Proposed translations
securities and valuables
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2020-06-29 12:33:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Another rationale for my translation: in French, the stock market is called 'la bourse des VALEURS'
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2020-06-29 15:47:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
valuables
small objects, especially jewellery, that are worth a lot:
A standard home contents policy covers events such as fire, storm, flood, and theft of valuables from the home.
Put valuables in the hotel safe.
Source: Cambridge Dictionary
agree |
tradu-grace
15 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
SafeTex
20 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
philgoddard
21 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
Chris Pr
22 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
agree |
Eliza Hall
: Valeurs = shares, stocks etc., so yes, securities. "Choses" I would put more broadly than valuables: just "property" (since it can mean real or personal property).
1 day 15 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
|
neutral |
Adrian MM.
: http://ecoumene.blogspot.com/2013/04/la-notion-de-chose-en-d...
1 day 15 hrs
|
The concepts in dispute are financial concepts
|
|
agree |
AllegroTrans
2 days 3 hrs
|
Thanks!
|
valuables and chattels
The insurance term of art of 'contents' would not work in this case.
Chattel is the movable personal property that can be either animate or inanimate property such as hogs, furniture, and automobiles. This property can be borrowed against using a chattel mortgage.
neutral |
Francois Boye
: 'valeurs' means securities since 'les valeurs sont gérées sous forme de titres intermédiés'
2 hrs
|
Valeurs are a wide category and also include assets like titres > inter-company trade investments,
|
|
disagree |
Eliza Hall
: With François on "valeurs." Also, "choses" isn't limited to chattels; it can include real property. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_des_biens_en_dr...
1 day 13 hrs
|
Your link mainly about biens im/meubles, plus my explanation refers to chattels personal vs. real that, e.g. as land or leaseholds in Anglo-Am. law, would not - but for title deeds - be kept on safe dep. + secs. covered by valuables in EN will drafting.
|
|
neutral |
AllegroTrans
: 'valeurs' means securities here and I somehow doubt whether a bank would accept hogs, furniture and automobiles for keeping in a safe deposit box
2 days 1 hr
|
As already mentioned several times, 'valuables left iny my safe deposit box' in a long line of ENG probate cases include bond, share & stock certs, plus titres thereafter are the secs. or equities. Also FB's agree ignore worthless 'choses' as 'valuables'.
|
values and items
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 38 mins (2020-06-30 21:33:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
The items are deposit values, as is explained in the source text description. If any case arises in which an item (deposit value) could be disposable, then it would mean that the account value could be withdrawn by (and returned to) the person who originally deposited the item value, like a person's disposable income which would be spent on everyday living costs.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 5 hrs (2020-07-01 02:03:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
www.larouse.fr
"La valeur est ce que vaut un objet susceptible d'être échangé ou vendu ou peut-être commerciale donnée en échange d'une autre."
"The value is that which a susceptible material object is worth, which can be exchanged or sold, perhaps given commercially in exchange for another."
"La valeur est une qualité qui confère aux choses, aux faits ou aux personnes une estimation soit positive soit négative. D'autre part les valeurs sont des caractéristiques morales inhérentes à la personne."
" Value is a quality which is placed on things, facts or people as a positive or negative estimation. Otherwise, values are moral characteristics, inherent to the person."
If one considers the words of the source text placed by the person who asked for a French-English translation of 'valeurs et choses', one sees 'valeurs en dépôt' (deposit values), 'la Banque' (the Bank), 'conditions générales' (general conditions). That's to say that in this particular context the values are related to bank accounts, deposits and shares.
The present rules are applied to the values attached to items (deposit values) disposed by the bank in addition to the general conditions, also, particularly, when values are managed under the form of intermediate titles.
Le présent règlement s'applique aux valeurs et aux choses (valeurs en dépôt) déposées auprès de la Banque en complément de conditions générales en particulier aussi lorsque les valeurs sont gérées sous forme de titres intermédiés.
disagree |
AllegroTrans
: You have totally misunderstood the meaning of "valeurs" in THIS context.
1 day 23 hrs
|
Discussion
"Les choses sont tout ce qui existe : les étoiles, l'herbe, une table, du gaz, etc. qui sont ou non appropriables. Les biens sont les choses appréhendées par le droit qui peuvent devenir la propriété d'une personne.... En ce sens :
- sont des choses mais non des biens : le soleil, la lune, l'eau de mer, l'air, etc. (régies notamment par l'Article 714 du Code civil2.) ;
- sont des choses et des biens : une maison, un terrain, une somme d'argent, un droit d'auteur, etc."
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_des_biens_en_dr...
So it's not just "chattels" (a.k.a. "personal property"), as Adrian suggested.
And "valeurs" of course means "securities" (see meaning C here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/valeur ), as François Boye said. It does not mean "valuables" ("articles of considerable value, as of personal property, especially those of relatively small size: they locked their valuables in the hotel safe" https://www.dictionary.com/browse/valuables).
Thanks'
Good one, but well, yes, in ENG wills drafted and leaving 'valuable stamp collections, bonds and share certs.' plus insurance of the 'valuable contents' of safe deposit boxes encompassing belongings and personal effects.
'So whatever valuables you own, whether that's gold coins, family jewelry, or *stock certificates*, banks are much harder to break into and located in secure areas with alarms, video cameras, and top-notch locks.' https://www.investopedia.com/safe-deposit-box-what-to-store-...
I never use "valuables" to mean bonds, share certificates etc. Do you?
Thanks
Note also the ENG canon of construction of noscitur a sociis - 'know a word by the company it keeps' : valeurs is immediately followed by the wide-range term of choses.
As mentioned, the titres intermédiés could fall into the securities category and, as trade investements held by one company in another, including debenture certifcates, so as assets on a bal. sheet generally.
Are you saying "valuables" mean "small items of value in a safe deposit box" (like jewellery etc.) or are you using it to mean "securities" or do you mean that "valuables" has the first sense but includes such small items like securities and bond certificates? (e.g. "I keep my valuables (jewellery AND certificates) in a safe"?
I just can't work out what you both mean exactly