Jun 28, 2020 20:55
3 yrs ago
40 viewers *
French term

valeurs et choses

French to English Bus/Financial Finance (general) Banking
"Le présent Règlement s’applique aux valeurs et aux choses ( valeurs en dépôt ) déposées auprès de la Banque en complément des Conditions Générales en particulier aussi lorsque les valeurs sont gérées sous forme de titres intermédiés"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): TechLawDC, Yvonne Gallagher

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Discussion

Eliza Hall Jun 30, 2020:
"Choses" means, of course, "things" and in the sense used here, "property" -- any type: real estate, diamond rings, horses, the copyright in a hit song, etc.:

"Les choses sont tout ce qui existe : les étoiles, l'herbe, une table, du gaz, etc. qui sont ou non appropriables. Les biens sont les choses appréhendées par le droit qui peuvent devenir la propriété d'une personne.... En ce sens :
- sont des choses mais non des biens : le soleil, la lune, l'eau de mer, l'air, etc. (régies notamment par l'Article 714 du Code civil2.) ;
- sont des choses et des biens : une maison, un terrain, une somme d'argent, un droit d'auteur, etc."
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_des_biens_en_dr...

So it's not just "chattels" (a.k.a. "personal property"), as Adrian suggested.

And "valeurs" of course means "securities" (see meaning C here: https://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/valeur ), as François Boye said. It does not mean "valuables" ("articles of considerable value, as of personal property, especially those of relatively small size: they locked their valuables in the hotel safe" https://www.dictionary.com/browse/valuables).
Adrian MM. Jun 29, 2020:
insurance & willing of valuables @ SafeTex 'I never use "valuables" to mean bonds, share certificates etc. Do you?
Thanks'

Good one, but well, yes, in ENG wills drafted and leaving 'valuable stamp collections, bonds and share certs.' plus insurance of the 'valuable contents' of safe deposit boxes encompassing belongings and personal effects.

'So whatever valuables you own, whether that's gold coins, family jewelry, or *stock certificates*, banks are much harder to break into and located in secure areas with alarms, video cameras, and top-notch locks.' https://www.investopedia.com/safe-deposit-box-what-to-store-...
SafeTex Jun 29, 2020:
@ Adrian In that case, is "valuables" okay to use? It's just that for me, this can only refer to small items of value that you leave in a locker (like your keys, jewellery etc.) or in a bank safe deposit.
I never use "valuables" to mean bonds, share certificates etc. Do you?
Thanks
Adrian MM. Jun 29, 2020:
valeurs @ Safetex We are assuming that this is banking arrangement for private, retail customers, whereas this might be for wholesale, corporate customers whose assets and chattels are being held in safe custody and are unlikely to include jewellery or gold bars, either as valeurs or as choses.

Note also the ENG canon of construction of noscitur a sociis - 'know a word by the company it keeps' : valeurs is immediately followed by the wide-range term of choses.

As mentioned, the titres intermédiés could fall into the securities category and, as trade investements held by one company in another, including debenture certifcates, so as assets on a bal. sheet generally.
SafeTex Jun 29, 2020:
@ Francois and Adrian Hello

Are you saying "valuables" mean "small items of value in a safe deposit box" (like jewellery etc.) or are you using it to mean "securities" or do you mean that "valuables" has the first sense but includes such small items like securities and bond certificates? (e.g. "I keep my valuables (jewellery AND certificates) in a safe"?
I just can't work out what you both mean exactly


Proposed translations

+6
45 mins
Selected

securities and valuables

'valeur' is something that has an exchange value whereas 'chose' is something that has an use value even though some 'choses' could be sold.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2020-06-29 12:33:09 GMT)
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Another rationale for my translation: in French, the stock market is called 'la bourse des VALEURS'

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Note added at 18 hrs (2020-06-29 15:47:04 GMT)
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valuables

small objects, especially jewellery, that are worth a lot:

A standard home contents policy covers events such as fire, storm, flood, and theft of valuables from the home.

Put valuables in the hotel safe.

Source: Cambridge Dictionary
Peer comment(s):

agree tradu-grace
15 hrs
Thanks!
agree SafeTex
20 hrs
Thanks!
agree philgoddard
21 hrs
Thanks!
agree Chris Pr
22 hrs
Thanks!
agree Eliza Hall : Valeurs = shares, stocks etc., so yes, securities. "Choses" I would put more broadly than valuables: just "property" (since it can mean real or personal property).
1 day 15 hrs
Thanks!
neutral Adrian MM. : http://ecoumene.blogspot.com/2013/04/la-notion-de-chose-en-d...
1 day 15 hrs
The concepts in dispute are financial concepts
agree AllegroTrans
2 days 3 hrs
Thanks!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
-1
2 hrs

valuables and chattels

choses are indeed things and chattels would be personal vs. chattels real in this case-

The insurance term of art of 'contents' would not work in this case.
Example sentence:

Chattel is the movable personal property that can be either animate or inanimate property such as hogs, furniture, and automobiles. This property can be borrowed against using a chattel mortgage.

Peer comment(s):

neutral Francois Boye : 'valeurs' means securities since 'les valeurs sont gérées sous forme de titres intermédiés'
2 hrs
Valeurs are a wide category and also include assets like titres > inter-company trade investments,
disagree Eliza Hall : With François on "valeurs." Also, "choses" isn't limited to chattels; it can include real property. https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_des_biens_en_dr...
1 day 13 hrs
Your link mainly about biens im/meubles, plus my explanation refers to chattels personal vs. real that, e.g. as land or leaseholds in Anglo-Am. law, would not - but for title deeds - be kept on safe dep. + secs. covered by valuables in EN will drafting.
neutral AllegroTrans : 'valeurs' means securities here and I somehow doubt whether a bank would accept hogs, furniture and automobiles for keeping in a safe deposit box
2 days 1 hr
As already mentioned several times, 'valuables left iny my safe deposit box' in a long line of ENG probate cases include bond, share & stock certs, plus titres thereafter are the secs. or equities. Also FB's agree ignore worthless 'choses' as 'valuables'.
Something went wrong...
-1
4 hrs

values and items

It's about the rules on deposit values and if cases arise for disposable items. It looks like part of banking terms and conditions.

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Note added at 2 days 38 mins (2020-06-30 21:33:54 GMT)
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The items are deposit values, as is explained in the source text description. If any case arises in which an item (deposit value) could be disposable, then it would mean that the account value could be withdrawn by (and returned to) the person who originally deposited the item value, like a person's disposable income which would be spent on everyday living costs.

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Note added at 2 days 5 hrs (2020-07-01 02:03:25 GMT)
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www.larouse.fr
"La valeur est ce que vaut un objet susceptible d'être échangé ou vendu ou peut-être commerciale donnée en échange d'une autre."
"The value is that which a susceptible material object is worth, which can be exchanged or sold, perhaps given commercially in exchange for another."
"La valeur est une qualité qui confère aux choses, aux faits ou aux personnes une estimation soit positive soit négative. D'autre part les valeurs sont des caractéristiques morales inhérentes à la personne."
" Value is a quality which is placed on things, facts or people as a positive or negative estimation. Otherwise, values are moral characteristics, inherent to the person."
If one considers the words of the source text placed by the person who asked for a French-English translation of 'valeurs et choses', one sees 'valeurs en dépôt' (deposit values), 'la Banque' (the Bank), 'conditions générales' (general conditions). That's to say that in this particular context the values are related to bank accounts, deposits and shares.
Example sentence:

The present rules are applied to the values attached to items (deposit values) disposed by the bank in addition to the general conditions, also, particularly, when values are managed under the form of intermediate titles.

Le présent règlement s'applique aux valeurs et aux choses (valeurs en dépôt) déposées auprès de la Banque en complément de conditions générales en particulier aussi lorsque les valeurs sont gérées sous forme de titres intermédiés.

Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : You have totally misunderstood the meaning of "valeurs" in THIS context.
1 day 23 hrs
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