Glossary entry

English term or phrase:

absolute discretion

English answer:

shall not communicate anything by any means to any third party

Added to glossary by MPGS
Jun 14, 2020 10:27
3 yrs ago
54 viewers *
English term

absolute discretion

English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s)
Please help!
I don't quite understand "obligation of absolute discretion".

Context:

Labor contract:
...
...
Article 7 - CONFIDENTIALITY
The Employee is bound by an obligation of absolute discretion and by professional secrecy, that he/she commits himself/herself to observing, even after the expiry of the Contract, in respect of any act or information that he/she has come to know in the performance of his/her duties.
Change log

Jun 16, 2020 15:02: MPGS Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

Non-PRO (2): Yvonne Gallagher, AllegroTrans

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Discussion

Mark Robertson Jun 16, 2020:
@AllegroTrans No, because discretion, in meaning 1., is a personal quality/characteristic, which is the ability to behave in a certain way, not to be confused with that way of behaving.
AllegroTrans Jun 16, 2020:
@ Mark So do you say that the term means ".....especially by keeping information secret" in the asker's context, or are you saying it means something else?
Mark Robertson Jun 16, 2020:
@Philgoddard The definition is taken from the Cambridge Dictionary. Here are the full entries:
1. the ability to behave without causing embarrassment or attracting too much attention, especially by keeping information secret;
2. the right or ability to decide something;
3. choice, or the right to make a choice, based on judgment;
4. the right to choose something, or to choose to do something, according to what seems most suitable in a particular situation.

Absolute discretion, is meaningless in the context of 1. above.

Some people have formed the incorrect view that it means complete secrecy, probable for the reasons I have already stated.
Charlesp Jun 16, 2020:
discretion Let's say discrete is a synonym of discretion.

But it is not. Discretion means the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.

So they could use their discretion to reveal the information?

Or does discretion mean behaving in such a way as to avoid causing offense or revealing private information.


MY POINT is: discretion is a term with a multifaceted meaning.
Charlesp Jun 16, 2020:
13 hits of which 10 are 13 hits in a Google search should say something....
philgoddard Jun 14, 2020:
Mark Like Allegro, I don't accept your second definition at all. Discretion means confidentiality.
Mark Robertson Jun 14, 2020:
@AllegroTrans 1. My explanation is in English and answers the question.
2. Your contention does not seem to be supported by any reliable source.
3. How can legalese such as "obligation of absolute discretion" in a confidentiality clause not be a purported legal term?
4. The fact that many of the hits in the Google search of the EN terms are francophone plus the meaning and sources of the French legal term discrétion absolue merely suggests the source of this error.
AllegroTrans Jun 14, 2020:
@ Mark Asker wants an explanation in English, so I see no need to discuss the French term here. That said I don't agree that it's a false friend, nor are we looking at a legal term in the true sense. It seems fairly obvious that the term is to be understood with its everyday meaning
Mark Robertson Jun 14, 2020:
@Nam Vo; AllegroTrans Google searches for "obligation of absolute discretion" "duty of absolute discretion" produce a total of 13 hits of which 10 are in the context of confidentiality. It is noteworthy that many of these sources are francophone.

No English language legal dictionary I have consulted (Blacks, Jowetts, Words and Phrases Legally Defined) provides a meaning of absolute discretion that connotes confidentiality/secrecy.

Likewise, the 10 volume Oxford Dictionary gives no such meaning to the word discretion. However, Websters includes "the ability to keep a secret" as a meaning of discretion, which is nearer the mark.

One of the meanings of discrétion in French is secrecy (Larousse, Dictionnaire économique et juridique NAVARRE) and Google searches for "devoir de discrétion absolue" "obligation de discrétion absolue" produce 8700 hits.

These hits include French court judgments in which "devoir/obligation de discrétion" has exactly the meaning presumably intended in the source text.

It therefore appears that "discrétion absolue / absolute discretion" are false friends.
MPGS Jun 14, 2020:
@AllegroTrans thank you very much again :-)
Nam Vo (asker) Jun 14, 2020:
@AllegroTrans Thank you very much :)
AllegroTrans Jun 14, 2020:
No need at all for a translator's note or to ask the client.
This has a clear meaning and I have seen it used like this scores of times. See answer by MPGS
Nam Vo (asker) Jun 14, 2020:
@Mark Yes. I usually encounter phrases like "doing something at its sole discretion/at its absolute discretion".
But this one really confuses me. I'll raise a query to the client, then.

Thank you, Mark :)
Mark Robertson Jun 14, 2020:
@Nam No You are right to be confused.

1. In a legal context, absolute discretion means the absolute and unqualified right of a person to act as they see fit, without even being subject to an obligation to act reasonably. This cannot be be the intended meaning in this confidentiality clause.

2. In a non-legal context, discretion means to behave or speak in such a way as to avoid embarrassment or distress. This meaning makes more sense in the context of a confidentiality clause, although "absolute discretion" cannot have that meaning.

The best way to deal with this sloppy drafting is probably a translator's note.



Responses

+7
23 mins
Selected

does not communicate anything by any means to any third party

above
:-)

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Note added at 9 hrs (2020-06-14 19:28:30 GMT)
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does not --> must not | will not | shall not

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Note added at 2 days 4 hrs (2020-06-16 15:01:24 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you all!!
Note from asker:
Thank you :)
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans : Maintains 100% confidentiality at all times
30 mins
Thank you AllegroTrans :-) Best!
agree Yvonne Gallagher : absolutely clearcut
2 hrs
Thank you, Yvonne. Best. :-)
agree Tina Vonhof (X)
4 hrs
Thank you, Tina. Rgds. :-)
agree Lydia De Jorge
6 hrs
Thanks a lot, Lydia. B Rgds. :-)
agree philgoddard : Except it's "must/will", not "does".
8 hrs
Phil, thanks a lot for your comment. Best.. :-)
agree Charlesp
21 hrs
Thank you, Charlesp. Best. :-)
neutral Dr. Jozsef Dikter : That word seems to be a mistranslated foreign word, not really matching the INTENDED content. The colleague needs to warn/consult the client.
1 day 10 hrs
Thank you Joszef. Best. :-)
agree Elisa Ksiazenicki
1 day 14 hrs
Thank you Elisa. Best. :-)
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you very much :)"
-2
37 mins

discreción absoluta

In this case it should translated literally, since the themeaning is the same as source, "to maintain absolute and unfettered discretion
Note from asker:
Thank you :)
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : Question is monolingual, akser needs explanation// asker is in Viet Nam and hasn't even mentioned Spanish!
15 mins
I have provided explanation, a reference link and the Spanish translation, too.
disagree writeaway : 100% confidence for an answer in the wrong language?
1 hr
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : Wrong language
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
+2
8 hrs

keeping absolute confidentiality / keeping absolute secrecy

obligation of absolute discretion
trách nhiệm thận trọng tuyệt đối
trách nhiệm bảo mật tuyệt đối
Peer comment(s):

agree Charlesp
13 hrs
neutral Yvonne Gallagher : this is posted as monolingual English and has already been correctly answered
17 hrs
agree Dr. Jozsef Dikter : Some languages use similar words for keeping secret, but in English it is misleading. Consult your dictionaries to see the difference, the source word does not fit to the intended content.
1 day 2 hrs
Something went wrong...
-1
9 hrs

to have the right and ability to dispose by himself

to have the right and ability to dispose by himself
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : to dispose of what? this doesn’t make any sense in a paragaph about confidentiality
13 mins
disagree Yvonne Gallagher : "dispose by himself" = nonsense
16 hrs
agree Dr. Jozsef Dikter : True, the word does not match the content, but Adel has right. In my dictionary stays nothing about secrets beside this word. It's not fair to underscore a fellow translator when he shows a dictionary.
22 hrs
Alot of gratitude Dr Josef
Something went wrong...
-1
22 hrs

acts with honesty and integrity

sometimes referred to as "loyalty" or "loyally"
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : No, it means to observe secrecy
3 mins
Thanks. I am not sure if you mean that the term asked means observe secrecy or that the paragraph here means to observe secrecy.
neutral Dr. Jozsef Dikter : No, Allegro, the source word was just not properly used. Discretion means deliberate or rather voluntary act. Charlesp is right with the content at least.
9 hrs
That's right. The question was not what the section/provision meant; it was what the words mean. The words alone could mean "secrecy" - keep it secret. OR these two words could mean to "act with honesty and integrity"-- What is says or what is should say?
Something went wrong...
-1
1 day 7 hrs

exclusive judgement

In the cited text it refers to keeping secrets, that is the supposed intention with the clause.

Discretion however means in my dictionary an unobtrusive act, or even deliberate choice (freedom of action). The source text probably uses third language texts where words stemming from same routes as the english discretion mean secrets to keep.

One shall always translate a contract to deliver the exact same (i.e. false) content, but in case of misleading terms a pro always tries to call the clients attention for possible law suits and request guidance.
Peer comment(s):

disagree AllegroTrans : A person cannot use their "exclusive judgement" to keep secrets - that would effectively mean they could do whatever they choose. Please see my reference entry.
19 hrs
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

2 days 2 hrs
Reference:

Discretion has two separate and completely different basic meanings

noun: discretion

1. the quality of behaving or speaking in such a way as to avoid causing offence or revealing confidential information.
"she knew she could rely on his discretion"

2. the freedom to decide what should be done in a particular situation.
"local authorities should use their discretion in setting the charges"




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Note added at 2 days 10 hrs (2020-06-16 21:27:16 GMT) Post-grading
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Search Results
Web results

absolute discretion and confidentiality | English examples in ...
ludwig.guru › absolute+discretion+and+confidentiality
High quality example sentences with “absolute discretion and confidentiality” in context from reliable sources - Ludwig is the linguistic search engine that helps ...

How to Communicate When Absolute Discretion is Required ...
www.business2community.com › communications › co...
18 Feb 2015 - In fact, even when clients hand us highly confidential information, chances are it will be released to the public; after all, that is why they hire us, to ...
Note from asker:
Thank you very much :)
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