May 7, 2020 21:02
4 yrs ago
94 viewers *
Spanish term

unicamente para surtir efectos fuera del territorio nacional

Non-PRO Spanish to English Law/Patents Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs
Cuban birth certificate
Change log

May 7, 2020 21:02: changed "Kudoz queue" from "In queue" to "Public"

May 8, 2020 09:46: Yana Dovgopol changed "Vetting" from "Needs Vetting" to "Vet OK"

May 9, 2020 05:21: TechLawDC changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (2): Toni Castano, Robert Carter

Non-PRO (3): AllegroTrans, Jane Martin, TechLawDC

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Proposed translations

+5
12 hrs
Selected

only valid outside the national territory

Peer comment(s):

agree Rachel Gibson
25 mins
Thank you.
agree Maria Kisic
1 hr
Thank you Maria
agree AllegroTrans
1 hr
Thank you.
agree Toni Castano : The source doesn´t read "fuera de Cuba", but just "fuera del territorio nacional". It´s important to stick to it. It´s an official certificate.
5 hrs
Thank you.
agree Katherine Coelho
6 hrs
Thanks Katherine.
neutral Lester Tattersall : Yes...but I can understand Phil's reluctance: 1)we don't use the term "national territory" in this way in English (UK) 2) practically every piece of land in the world is, theoretically, 'national territory' (except Greenland, which is 'sub-national'.
7 hrs
Thank you for your input - and I thought this was a simple one.
neutral Robert Carter : Hi Jane. I don't think this is actually the meaning, plus I agree with Lester (and Phil) about "territorio nacional".
1 day 10 hrs
Thanks Robert. I had always thought this was an easy one, but look how much debate it has caused.
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
15 hrs

to be effectual outside Cuban national territory only

An authentic notarial wording might be: 'to serve and avail outside of Cuba only'. For instance, I had a qualification outisde the UK as a Brit. Comm. lawyer, but it was still very much valid in E&W.

There is a difference between being valid - it still is on Cuba - and taking effect outside (Scots: outwith) the main island plus La Isla de Juventud.

surtir efecto: to take effect; to be effective (West)




Example sentence:

----the said Notary,.... have granted these presents under my Notarial firm and Seal of Office to *serve and avail as occasion shall or may require*

Peer comment(s):

neutral Toni Castano : Overinterpretation of the source IMO!
2 hrs
Just paying 'Cuban' lip service to a previous accepted ProZ answer that the new asker never searched for: https://eng.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/education-peda...
neutral AllegroTrans : It doesn't say "Cuban territory" even though clearly implied, and this can be translated adequately as per Jane M; you are to wedded (welded) to London Scrivener Notary lingo
3 hrs
Just paying 'Cuban' lip service to a previous accepted ProZ answer that the new asker never searched for: https://eng.proz.com/kudoz/spanish-to-english/education-peda...
neutral Robert Carter : Kudos for being the only one to have noticed the nuance of "for use outside Cuba", but you've still added "only"; whereas I think the certification is really "only issued for that purpose" (i.e., not for any other internal one).
1 day 5 hrs
Yes. You're right, though I had a problem with 1. the pre-existing ProZ (glossary) entry that also mistakenly gravitates towards 'valid' when recognisable (as proof) on Cuba itself & 2. the stylistic balance of issued 'solely to be effectual outside...'.
Something went wrong...
+2
15 hrs

valid only outside Cuba

I don't disagree with Jane's answer, but I just think this is more concise and elegant.
Peer comment(s):

agree patinba : Me too.
1 hr
neutral Toni Castano : Careful with this translation in an official certificate!
2 hrs
Why?
agree Luis M. Sosa : Strongly agree.
2 hrs
neutral AllegroTrans : It doesn't say "Cuba" even though clearly implied, and this can be translated adequately as per Jane M
3 hrs
I believe my version reads better and is equally accurate.
neutral Robert Carter : I agree with you about "Cuba", but not about the meaning. Logically, that would mean it's invalid within Cuba, and I don't think that's the case.
1 day 7 hrs
Something went wrong...
1 day 23 hrs

solely to take effect abroad / solely for purposes of authentication abroad

There's a nuance that Adrian spotted here, in that the certification doesn't actually invalidate the document within Cuba, it simply invests it with authenticity for international purposes (I am assuming that this legend is not actually part of the birth certificate, but part of some legalization certification attached to it).

If you have a document issued in a certain country, and you then apply to the authorities of that country for an apostille or legalization certificate so that it can be presented and deemed authentic in another country, the apostille or legalization that is issued does not invalidate the original document or indeed the certification attached to it (apostille/legalization), in which case the wording here does not mean "only valid outside Cuba", it means "solely to take effect outside Cuba" or to put it another way, "solely for purposes of authentication abroad".

"An Apostille is simply the name for a specialized certificate, issued by the Secretary of State. The Apostille is attached to your original document to verify it is legitimate and authentic so it will be accepted in one of the other countries who are members of the Hague Apostille Convention."
https://www.internationalapostille.com/what-is-an-apostille/

By the way, I also agree that the meaning of "territorio nacional" is "Cuba" here; I have been using the same approach to this term for more than twenty years with documents issued in Mexico. "National territory" is meaningless to most English speakers, but "territorio nacional" is completely recognizable as "Mexico" to someone living in Mexico (or as "Cuba" to Cubans, etc.).
Something went wrong...
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