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conservateurs-bornes
Mar 18, 2004 17:39
20 yrs ago
French term

repu

French to English Art/Literary History political history
I am translating a work by Victor Considerant, French socialist of 1840s. He calls certain politicians "repus"
and I am wondering whether it would be too strong a term if I translate that as "pigs." Suggestions welcome
Proposed translations (English)
4 +2 the word means "sated" or "full up"
5 +4 bloated monopolist or plutocrat
5 +3 fat cats
5 Beware anachronisms
4 full.
4 well-fed/wealthy
2 +1 overfed

Discussion

Non-ProZ.com (asker) Mar 19, 2004:
looking for a noun He speaks of ex-liberaux repus, and in another place, les repus, and in yet another Repus!
So, I understand what it means, but I need a noun.
Non-ProZ.com (asker) Mar 18, 2004:
I appreciate all your answers; I hope such puzzles are enjoyable for you. This is the first time that I have used this "Workplace," so I am having to learn how to do it. I am not a professional translator, but a political scientist, with an interest in early French socialism. I am translating Considerant's Manifeste de la democratie pacifique because it is an important document and seems not to have been translated into English (there is a Spanish translation). I know the context well, but I'm trying to find someone who might know more.
Here are some sentences: Le parti des Conservateurs-bornes est celui qui a occupe le Pouvoir en France depuis la Revolution de Juillet. [that is July 1830]. . . L'ecole doctrinaire a ete le pivot de ce parti des Bornes, forme d'une partie des chefs du vieux liberalism, auquel se sont affilies d'anciens revolutionnaires repus. . .
[repus is used several times as an epithet, so understanding the literal meaning doesn't help; I need an appropriate epithet. "Feeding at the trough" might be an equivalent concept, but I need one word. Thus, I thought of "pigs." However that is very strong. It does seem to have been in use in
1852 as an epithet for humans. Fat cats might work if contemporary]
Non-ProZ.com (asker) Mar 18, 2004:
I can't grade responses, as I forgot to state that I am trying to use only English words current in the c. 1840s, and with the meanings they then had.
I am using Spiers and Surenne's 1852 dictionary, and the OED.

Proposed translations

+2
3 mins
Selected

the word means "sated" or "full up"

so you had better give us the rest of the sentence to see what they were sated with!
Peer comment(s):
agree Hacene : or "stuffed" or "satiated"
2 mins
agree Vicky Papaprodromou
5 mins
disagree Meri Buettner : not at all in context
12 mins
but I hadn't seen the context!
agree Mario Marcolin : Yes, and this is a common 19th century image for wealth :)
14 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I needed a noun to be used as an epithet."
+4
14 mins

bloated monopolist or plutocrat

Declined
nothing to do with the verb "repaître"

source: Termium

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Note added at 2004-03-18 17:58:57 (GMT)
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by the way...\"plutocracy\" = government by the wealthy

and \"plutocrat\" - controlling class of the wealthy

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Note added at 2004-03-18 18:02:12 (GMT)
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***some info on NancyLynn\'s very pertinent \"fat cats\":

gros chat

ange

OBS – (politique américaine) \"les \"gros chats\" sont-ils un
mal nécessaire à la politique américaine? En argot,
désormais classique, les \"fat cats\" on dit aussi les
\"anges\" sont des hommes très riches qui financent
directement ou indirectement les partis\" (le figaro, 13-12 -
71, p. 7) L.C. 24-1-72


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Note added at 2004-03-18 18:03:16 (GMT)
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***\"repus\" always has an \"s\"

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Note added at 2004-03-18 22:13:33 (GMT)
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both terms were def. in use \"back then\"(as they are today)
Peer comment(s):
agree Christopher Crockett : Yes, these would seem to work. As with the other term(s) Joan is enquiring about, she needs to be sure and not use anachronisms --terms drawn from, and specific to, our own time-- even if they do "fit" the concepts which Considerant had in mind.
57 mins
merci
agree NancyLynn : repus, yes
1 hr
thanx
agree Jean-Claude Gouin
3 hrs
thanx :o)
neutral Hacene : not in this historico-philosophical context
5 hrs
it's politics and ideology - not philosophy and we're not talking about medieval language here....lighten up !
agree Gayle Wallimann
14 hrs
thanx Gayle :o)
neutral Mario Marcolin : If he meant plutocrats, he would have said so!
14 hrs
what do you think "repus" means when qualifying politicians?
Something went wrong...
+3
14 mins

fat cats

Declined
repu is an adjective and I am proposing a qualified noun, but I see you were considering a noun anyway...:-)
I live near Canada's capital, the city of Ottawa, known for its Fat Cats

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Note added at 1 hr 31 mins (2004-03-18 19:11:21 GMT)
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Meri is right, repus
Peer comment(s):
agree Meri Buettner : not bad...but there is always an "s" whether sing. or plur. (repus)
3 mins
you could say fat-cat politicans, too
agree Jean-Claude Gouin : repus ...
3 hrs
thanks !
agree Mario Marcolin : to the point :)
14 hrs
thanks!
Something went wrong...
1 hr

Beware anachronisms

As I said in my comment to Meri, you might want to be careful not to use anachronisms --terms drawn from, and specific to, our own time-- even if they do "fit" the concepts which Considerant (writing in the 1840s) had in mind.

Unless, of course, you want to "bring Considerant into the third millennium" by not just "translating" his work, but interpreting it as well.

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Note added at 1 hr 31 mins (2004-03-18 19:11:31 GMT)
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Re Joan\'s added note :

Well, good for you for trying to use only contemporary English words.

A *lot* more difficult to do, but the result will be something of a \"real\" translation. (You can clarify any obscure terms in footnotes, giving the original French and a bit of explanation.)

I wonder if you could find a contemporary English (or U.S.) account --even a newspaper account-- or a history of what was going on in France?

That might give you access to how these terms were translated at the time.

Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, my knowledge of the historical literature dealing with this period is really negligable, so I can\'t offer any specific help.
Something went wrong...
+1
3 hrs

overfed

might fit, based on a French-German translation of 1880 (gesättigt)
Peer comment(s):
agree Mario Marcolin : would fit the context, I suspect "overfed" implies "wealthy"
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
2 hrs

full.

In your context, it refers to the bourgeoisy which is always eating very well (fat cats) as opposed to the working class which is underpaid and underfed. but as previously, give the full sentence and we would be able to provide you with the relevant help.

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Note added at 3 hrs 58 mins (2004-03-18 21:38:13 GMT)
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Le parti des Conservateurs-bornes
est celui qui a occupe le Pouvoir en France depuis la
Revolution de Juillet. [that is July 1830]. . . L\'ecole
doctrinaire a ete le pivot de ce parti des Bornes, forme
d\'une partie des chefs du vieux liberalism, auquel se sont
affilies d\'anciens revolutionnaires repus. =
The party of the stubborn conservatives is the one in power since the July Revolution. The college of doctrines had been the corner-stone of those reactionaries, based on some of the leaders of the old liberalism (laffite), and whom many complacent former revolutionaries (Guizot, Thiers) have joined.

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Note added at 4 hrs 0 min (2004-03-18 21:39:36 GMT)
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\"and which\" instead of \"of whom\" could be used if you want the referrent to refer to \"the college of doctrines\"

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Note added at 4 hrs 12 mins (2004-03-18 21:51:41 GMT)
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complacent former revolutionaries
or
gorged former revolutionaries
or
satiated former revolutionaries
which were all in use in the mid 19th century
if you want further discussion, contact me through e-mail (click on my name)

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Note added at 23 hrs 35 mins (2004-03-19 17:15:16 GMT)
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One way to go about it is
_ 1) put a translator note each time you are using \"satiated\"
or 2) put a translator note at the first use stating: \"later on mentioned/referred to as \"the Satiated\" or \"Those Satiated\"
or 3) keep on using the full expression
I would use the second one as it would made life easier for you and would render the exact ideas from the original text.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Jean-Claude Gouin : full ... of themselves?
1 hr
disagree Meri Buettner : good grief...it's got to do with wealth AND power (say like Texas politics...)
2 hrs
poltiness here is 1) you don't disagree if you provide an answer; 2) you don't seem to understand 19th c. France and imagery
agree Mario Marcolin : cf the images of "Le roi-poire"!!!
13 hrs
Cheers Mario, at least someone who knows what we are referring to
neutral Christopher Crockett : ? "you don't disagree if you provide an answer" ? Who says?
20 hrs
Hi Christopher. Would be nice to have a relevant comment.
neutral JoanR (X) : Hacene has certainly been persistent and expended much effort on my questions. However, I am new to this process, and need to learn how to ask questions to obtain precisely the information I need.
1 day 20 hrs
Something went wrong...
15 hrs

well-fed/wealthy

" (.. auquel se sont affilies d')anciens revolutionnaires repus."
old revolutionaries that were now well-fed (well-off).
I'm not sure about mid 19th century English, but this is my interpretation..

At least this context describes people who once "fought on the barricades" but later join the ranks of the wealthy...
:)


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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs 32 mins (2004-03-20 15:11:55 GMT)
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a noun in keeping with the food imagery:
gluttons!
(and to the sin of gluttony)also with a secondary connotation: wolverines

might to the trick,
:)
mario



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Note added at 1 day 21 hrs 36 mins (2004-03-20 15:16:32 GMT)
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Do the trick...
Something went wrong...
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