Björn Vrooman May 10, 2019:

PS As an aside, the word Wahlflügel sounds even more ridiculous and betrays an utter lack of understanding of the linguistic implications in German (as the Duden put it, Flügel means "Gruppierung innerhalb einer politischen oder weltanschaulichen Partei oder Gruppe"; Wahl is a means, not a group). But I don't expect much from a website that says "eine Charta zu unterzeichnen, die sie zu DiEM25-Politiken verpflichtet..."

In any case, the issue has been resolved, I suppose.

Best

Björn Vrooman May 10, 2019:

"Look at all the examples of DiEM25 using this term to refer to its specific groups."

Yes, and that's why I quoted their own website below. In English:
"DiEM25’s ‘electoral wing’ will take in each country the form of a political party that represents our transnational, pan-European political movement in selected electoral contests."

I suggested using party and both AP and the Economist agree:
"diem25, a new leftist movement, tries to fix this by getting parties in different countries to adopt one platform."
https://www.economist.com/europe/2018/11/01/volt-wants-to-be...

"The Greek party is part of the Varoufakis-led European network known as Democracy in Europe Movement 2015, or DiEM25."
https://www.foxnews.com/world/greece-ex-finance-minister-var...

Affiliated isn't that wrong in general, although it's not right in this particular context. Some political parties are only affiliated with DiEM25. They are not Wahlflügel. Others have been spun off, if you will. I actually think Michael's "on the ballot" (without affiliated) could be a solution.

Best wishes and enjoy your weekend!

Eszter Bokor (asker) May 10, 2019:

Thanks so much for all your input and the lively discussion! After much thought I stuck with DiEM25's own term.

Björn Vrooman May 10, 2019:

Hello Darin First off, re "Sometimes you have to trust that other experts are indeed right." - Not only have I walked back statements and retracted answers in the past, but I'm also most certainly willing to listen to others if they make a good point.

Sorry for being so blunt, but reposting website content from a Euro page is an intellectually lazy move. The asker herself said in response to the first answer: "I've seen this..." So, she did do her research and didn't like it.

By contrast, the first paragraph in your most recent post is somewhat of an explanation, which I'm grateful for.

I'm not particularly fond of the example you give and it's not just because it talks about the Philippines. Again, you'd usually call that a political arm:
https://woub.org/2016/09/28/political-arm-of-planned-parenth...

A wing, is in fact, a statement of opinion:
"a group of people within a political party or other organization who have a particular opinion or aim"
https://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/wing

That's why conservative and progressive and, to a certain extent, electoral and militant, makes sense. Electoral decisions vs. internal party organization does not, IMHO.
[...]

Darin Fitzpatrick May 10, 2019:

Hi Björn The term "electoral wing" does not imply the existence of a militant wing. It just distinguishes political election-related activities from other activities, such as public outreach or internal organization. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Union_Congress_Party for example.

In this case, though, I think this linguistic approach is wrong from the start. Look at all the examples of DiEM25 using this term to refer to its specific groups. It uses the terms "Wahlflügel" and "electoral wing" to refer to the exact same thing. The focus here should be on the referent: what are we talking about? Not, why did they select this particular term instead of another.

That is why I say that any other choice than using DiEM25's own terminology would be irresponsible here. (Note that I removed my own incorrect suggestion, which was based on the Wiki article you cite. In this case the Wiki does not reflect the internal term, and I think that is a problem that Wiki should correct.)

For your next question, I suggest you put it out here and see what comes back. Sometimes you have to trust that other experts are indeed right.

Björn Vrooman May 10, 2019:

PS Darin, let's approach this from a linguistic perspective.

When you have a progressive wing of a party, a court, etc., there is always a conservative wing as well. The few times electoral wing is used, it describes the counterpart to an organization's militant wing. Take Hamas, for example, Sinn Fein, the IRA or the ETA. Do you want people to think of this movement in the same way? Superb idea.

Now, two wings a bird make, as Yoda would put it. However, this kind of dichotomy is absent in this context. There is no militant wing or a similar group (although I'd still prefer calling it a political arm). Please also note that the words don't show up in the EN Wiki entry about the movement:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_in_Europe_Movement_2...

I'm quite frankly a bit surprised about your response, considering we often agree, and you once helped me with one of my questions, where the most important point was to make the answer fit the context.

I may have to ask another Q on this forum soon, but if this is the response I'd get, I'm not sure how much help that's going to be (don't take this personally).

Best wishes

Björn Vrooman May 9, 2019:

Darin To be frank, not sure he did because DiEM25 is a political movement.

Their website contains some confusing statements, IMO, but that is to be expected.

What the German says is actually pretty much irrelevant. The web pages seem to have been translated from "Eurish."

There is indeed something called a transnational party. Here's a popular example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'ath_Party

But, then, just say party, period. Not affiliated, not wing.

I've been following US politics for quite some time and I read US news reports every single day and while progressive wing of (whatever) party is totally fine, "electoral" wing just sounds like KFC...

"There is no possible justification for using a different term than the one they selected..."

Yes there is and I do it all the time because: journalism. Your readers need to understand what's going on. Long-winded explanations about what term A and B mean in this and that context are not useful. You'll need to find something people can easily understand if you don't want them to go read another newspaper. And Eszter's paragraph doesn't sound like it's from the movement's website.

Best wishes

Darin Fitzpatrick May 9, 2019:

Now, Björn ... Do you really think that this definition adds anything? Or that John did not read the website before citing it? The organization is a pan-European group that has self-selected both terms. There is no possible justification for using a different term than the one they selected. 'Political arm' is probably fine, but then the German should be 'politischer Arm' and not 'Wahlflügel.'

Björn Vrooman May 9, 2019:

Has anyone bothered... ...to look up what the term actually stands for or is this irrelevant these days? And electoral wing sounds ridiculous, sorry.

"Als Wahlflügel bezeichnen wir eine Organisation, die neben der eigentlichen DiEM25- Bewegung auf der jeweiligen nationalen Ebene entstehen soll. Der Wahlflügel versteht sich dabei als parlamentarisch-politischer Arm der DiEM-Bewegung."

It's what happened to the Greens, basically. In any case, you do have the phrase "political arm" in English. E.g.:
"Her counsel was particularly valued after Demos’s political arm published a much-lauded 2018 paper on how..., a key focus of the progressive message."
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/18/us/politics/2020-democrat...

Darin, I agree with you in principle, but affliated doesn't work well here, IMO. An example:
https://twitter.com/margarethodge/status/1110243382826291200

The word doesn't tell you much (in the example, the party is the Labor Party, not their "own"). In a larger organization in the US, you would call this a "chapter" (or state party or the like, but I have a feeling they want to avoid using the word state/national).

Best wishes

Darin Fitzpatrick May 9, 2019:

Common usage? I think 'electoral wing' is easily understood, but not a common term. However, neither is 'Wahlflügel.' These folks are making up a new term for their new concept, so it works in English as well.

John O'Brien May 9, 2019:

Re.: 'electoral wing' This term is placed in single quotation marks on the DiEM25 website. It is an attempt to create a new term to describe the affiliated parties from the point of view of the main DiEM25 party. You could also use the term in single quotation marks.