Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
il n'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme
English translation:
There is no hermetic separation between it … and the observer, as postulated by positivism
Added to glossary by
B D Finch
Nov 8, 2018 06:34
5 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term
il n'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme
French to English
Other
Philosophy
Here's the quote in its entirety:
Entre lui (le monde) et l'observateur, il n'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme et avec lui, toutes les vieilles doctrines pour qui l'univers et l'homme en viennent à se juxtaposer comme deux entités plus ou moins distinctes.... car, il n'y a pas d'observation désincarnée de toute action physique, pas plus qu'il n'y a d'intelligence sans organe ni d'homme sans corps
Here's my translation:
Between him (the world) and the observer, there is not this tight interval positivism postulates and with him, all the old doctrines for which the universe and man come to juxtapose themselves as two more or less distinct entities ....As for there is no disembodied observation of any physical action, nor is there intelligence without an organ or a man without a body
Entre lui (le monde) et l'observateur, il n'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme et avec lui, toutes les vieilles doctrines pour qui l'univers et l'homme en viennent à se juxtaposer comme deux entités plus ou moins distinctes.... car, il n'y a pas d'observation désincarnée de toute action physique, pas plus qu'il n'y a d'intelligence sans organe ni d'homme sans corps
Here's my translation:
Between him (the world) and the observer, there is not this tight interval positivism postulates and with him, all the old doctrines for which the universe and man come to juxtapose themselves as two more or less distinct entities ....As for there is no disembodied observation of any physical action, nor is there intelligence without an organ or a man without a body
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Nov 8, 2018 21:23: Yolanda Broad changed "Term asked" from "il n\\\'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme" to "il n\'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme "
Nov 8, 2018 22:40: Tony M changed "Field" from "Science" to "Other"
Nov 15, 2018 14:16: B D Finch Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+3
9 hrs
French term (edited):
il n\'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme
Selected
There is no hermetic separation between it … and the observer, as postulated by positivism
This is rather long for a KudoZ question, but I think it does require rearranging when translated into English. Be careful with your pronouns! "Lui" ("Entre lui (le monde)"), should be translated as "it", not "he". Also, gender neutrality is more generally accepted in English than in French; so, for instance, "l'homme" would be better translated as "humanity", rather than "man".
www.progressivelibrariansguild.org/PL/PL21/072.pdf
"Various philosophical currents, allowing for various different ways of understanding factual truth and its relationship to values and interpretation, have sprung up and grown up alongside positivism, borne out of a dissatisfaction with its hermetic separation of the thinking mind from lived reality."
https://bit.ly/2Oz0Ild
"Montesquieu is understood to have proposed a hermetic separation of three ‘powers’: a legislative, an executive and a judicial power. These, Eisenmann summarises, are to be: ‘(1) composed of totally different elements, (2) each charged with exercising one of the three powers of state, (3) devoid of any mutual influence and (4) having no relation or communication with each other’."
https://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/full/.../S1069-0964(2010)...
Critical realists assume that human observation is theory-laden or “conceptually mediated,” instead of the theory-neutral observation postulated by positivism.
www.progressivelibrariansguild.org/PL/PL21/072.pdf
"Various philosophical currents, allowing for various different ways of understanding factual truth and its relationship to values and interpretation, have sprung up and grown up alongside positivism, borne out of a dissatisfaction with its hermetic separation of the thinking mind from lived reality."
https://bit.ly/2Oz0Ild
"Montesquieu is understood to have proposed a hermetic separation of three ‘powers’: a legislative, an executive and a judicial power. These, Eisenmann summarises, are to be: ‘(1) composed of totally different elements, (2) each charged with exercising one of the three powers of state, (3) devoid of any mutual influence and (4) having no relation or communication with each other’."
https://www.emeraldinsight.com/doi/full/.../S1069-0964(2010)...
Critical realists assume that human observation is theory-laden or “conceptually mediated,” instead of the theory-neutral observation postulated by positivism.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
52 mins
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Thanks Tony
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| agree |
Yolanda Broad
5 hrs
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Thanks Yolanda
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| agree |
Melissa McMahon
6 hrs
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Thanks Melissa
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Great translation! Thanks for tthe help!"
4 hrs
Eliza Hall
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Lawyer-Translator-Certified Interpreter
Native in: English (Variants: British, UK, US, Scottish, Canadian, Irish)
Works in: French to English, English to French
French term (edited):
il n\\\'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme
there is no such thing as the watertight separation proposed by positivism
Here's a suggestion. An Anglophone would probably write this as two or even three separate sentences, but if you want to keep it closer to the original, here ya go.
Between the world and the observer, there is no such thing as the watertight separation proposed [or postulated] by positivism, as well as by all the old-fashioned doctrines that view the universe and humanity as two more or less distinct entities that merely interact... for there is no such thing as observation disembodied from any physical action, any more than there is intelligence without physical organs or a person without a body.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-11-08 14:52:15 GMT)
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Watertight is used metaphorically here, and although "intervalle" suggests a space or distance as Tony M notes, that concept doesn't work with any good translation of étanche: a watertight/impermeable/impenetrable/inviolable gap/space/distance/interval? None of those sound right.
An intervalle can be an incredibly tiny space or distance; the key point it makes is that the two things separated by the intervalle are not touching each other (or, for an intervalle in time, not simultaneous or overlapping). So a watertight/impermeable/etc. separation works.
Given how long this sentence is, and how much English prefers concision, I went with shorter words where possible (watertight instead of impermeable, proposed instead of postulated, and a shorter translation of "viennent à se juxtaposer."
Between the world and the observer, there is no such thing as the watertight separation proposed [or postulated] by positivism, as well as by all the old-fashioned doctrines that view the universe and humanity as two more or less distinct entities that merely interact... for there is no such thing as observation disembodied from any physical action, any more than there is intelligence without physical organs or a person without a body.
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Note added at 8 hrs (2018-11-08 14:52:15 GMT)
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Watertight is used metaphorically here, and although "intervalle" suggests a space or distance as Tony M notes, that concept doesn't work with any good translation of étanche: a watertight/impermeable/impenetrable/inviolable gap/space/distance/interval? None of those sound right.
An intervalle can be an incredibly tiny space or distance; the key point it makes is that the two things separated by the intervalle are not touching each other (or, for an intervalle in time, not simultaneous or overlapping). So a watertight/impermeable/etc. separation works.
Given how long this sentence is, and how much English prefers concision, I went with shorter words where possible (watertight instead of impermeable, proposed instead of postulated, and a shorter translation of "viennent à se juxtaposer."
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tony M
: Much better, though i don't think 'watertight' really works here; possibly 'impermeable' or 'impenetrable'? Also, I think 'intervalle suggests a 'gap' (= space), whereas separation could just imply a 'membrane' or 'barrier'.
47 mins
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Thx. There isn't enough space to comment here, so see note.
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9 hrs
Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
United States
Native in English
United States
Laudable Lady Linguist
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 3 more.
French term (edited):
il n\'y a pas cet intervalle étanche que postulent le positivisme
there is no clear-cut separation that is postulated by positivism
Not very literal, but I think this might work.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2018-11-08 16:19:04 GMT)
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My original thought about the phrase was that it meant "no hard and fast separation", but I am not so sure that "hard and fast" would reflect the register that you need.
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Note added at 9 hrs (2018-11-08 16:19:04 GMT)
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My original thought about the phrase was that it meant "no hard and fast separation", but I am not so sure that "hard and fast" would reflect the register that you need.
Discussion
"Between him [it]
(the world) and the observer, there is not this tight [I don't think 'tight' works here, I suspect the idea is something like 'watertight (fig.) / inviolable' — it is definite, clearly delimited, etc.]
interval positivism postulates [to avoid the string of nouns, I'd suggest 'postulated by positivism']
and with him [it?],
all the old doctrines for which the universe and man come to juxtapose themselves as two more or less distinct entities ....As [delete 'as']
for there is no disembodied observation of any physical action [I think the sense is actually 'disembodied from any physical action', and hence, 'disembodied' is not the right word],
nor is there [no more than there is...]
intelligence without an organ or a man without a body
HTH!