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Participación ganancial
vehículo gerencial
Mar 17, 2018 01:10
6 yrs ago
Spanish term

hacer lo que digan sus pistolas

Spanish to English Other Government / Politics Current events
I encountered this phrase in an op-ed piece in a Mexican newspaper. The piece is about NAFTA, the re-negotiation process that is going on, & how people think about NAFTA & markets in general, both in the U.S. & in Mexico. Here's the phrase in context:
"Trump está decidido a ***hacer lo que digan sus pistolas***, y como le gustan las guerras comerciales, y dice que es fácil ganarlas, parece estar atrincherado, listo para que sus pistolas atruenen y, tal vez, reviente de una buena vez el peor tratado que Estados Unidos (EU) ha firmado en su historia, que así ha llamado al TLCAN."
I think maybe it means to stick to his guns, but I've been unable to confirm or disconfirm this.
Has anyone else run across this phrase? Any insight would be very much appreciated - thanks in advance.
Proposed translations (English)
4 +6 to do whatever he likes / do whatever he pleases / go it alone
4 +1 to let his guns do the talking
4 following his gut instinct
3 to shoot it out
References
Refs.

Discussion

David Hollywood Mar 22, 2018:
all well and good but I think it's time to come to a decision
Charles Davis Mar 21, 2018:
@Marcelo The reason why I would not use "let his guns do the talking" is only partly because I don't think it will be read metaphorically; more importantly, I don't think it expresses what the author means, which to me is a fatal objection. I have no doubt that this is a witty variant of the Mexican expression "por sus pistolas" and that it refers to Trump going his own way, doing just as he pleases, without regard to any other consideration. "Letting his guns do the talking" simply doesn't mean that, even metaphorically; it means using force. The fact that Trump is in fact using force, in a sense, is beside the point; the point is that that's not what the author is saying here. I don't agree at all with what you say about ample room for interpretation and ambiguity; I'm sorry, but to me that's just woolly. He is using a colloquial expression in which the metaphorical element, "pistolas", has been wittily linked to a network of references to guns and shooting. If there were an English expression that included the word "gun" and meant doing whatever you like, we could emulate the effect, but there isn't, and we can't.
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 21, 2018:
@Marcelo Hi Marcelo. I fully agree with your argumentation. I am just not confident enough as for the comments from natives that to let his guns do the talking will allow room for a metaphorical non literal interpretation, as it happens with the original Spanish -an expression that would definitely not be read literally in Spanish but as a metaphor of Trump's bullying actions and decisions.
Were it to let room for such metaphorical reading I would fully agree not only with your arguments as for the intended meaning but with your translation itself. As for myself, I have only tried to express in English the nuances of the original expression so as to facilitate a fair translation; I have actually proposed just but aproximaciones de sentido and not actual translations here. As such, yours is a fine aproximación de sentido, and yet I am not so sure it would work in English as it does in Spanish.
Marcelo González Mar 21, 2018:
@Saltasebes-"bullying" is precisely what I had... ...alluded to when I said, "Trump´s waging a war...with...a bully-like approach." When you suggest in your 1st comment in this string: "to do as his guns tell or force him to do," you´re right, so how do you reconcile your suggesting this (non idiomatic) version and your hesitation to agree with my suggested idiom, which conveys precisely this idea? @Charles - Your point is well taken about Trump paying no attention to advice while still being able to follow a "propósito calculado" in that he CAN do both. But with your point about my suggestion of "letting his guns do the talking" "inevitably be[ing] taken" to refer to "force of arms," I disagree; indeed, in this context rich in metaphor (as Saltasebes has quoted from in his first comment below), the whole point is that "guns doing the talking" should NOT be taken literally. Yes, his use of "force" includes his bullying---a context in which ´sus pistolas´ (beyond being part of a Mexican idiom Robert has mentioned) could be understood in a broader, non-specific, figurative sense, allowing the reader ample room for interpretation, thus matching the source text´s ambiguity (despite Robert´s claim that its meaning is singular/precise).
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 20, 2018:
I think we are all back to where this all started; the inclusion of pistolas in the original adds the idea of a violent will -that I believe Charles has perfectly described as bullying.
Now, if you want to be completely precise you might need to include that nuance -somehow;
"To do as he [violently/bullyingly] pleases"

Even though -as already discussed- for a US president to do as he pleases, no matter what, is quite violent / bullying by itself!
Charles Davis Mar 20, 2018:
@Marcelo I don't think there's any contradiction between paying no attention to advice and following a "propósito calculado" and I do think the author is saying that both are true. Certainly the latter; "propósito calculado" is the author's own phrase. And I think also the former. Trump is following his own strategy (which is what the question term means); it is calculated, but the calculation is his own. As we know, his self-regard is supreme; he really believes he's smarter than everyone else and doesn't need to listen to anybody.

As for the question of force, Trump is of course a bully and is bullying the Mexicans, but he's doing so verbally, and as Robert has just said there's a difference between that and force of arms. "Letting your guns do the talking", in my opinion, would inevitably be taken to refer to the latter. The "shooting" here is metaphorical; it's a matter of imposing his will. He's letting his mouth (and his tweets), not his guns, do the talking. Of course those being bullied are aware that Trump could flatten them if he chose, and that makes a difference, but I don't think the author or anyone else really envisages Trump using military force against Mexico.
Robert Carter Mar 20, 2018:
@Marcelo Yes, of course, it's nice to reproduce rhetorical devices in a translation if possible, but here you might end up spending days trying and coming up with nothing, but your point about "news-savvy readers" making associations is off the mark I think because nothing in the ST would suggest that was the author's intention.

If you translate the phrase literally, it reads "do whatever his guns say", which is quite different to "let his guns do the talking", and I repeat, the latter has a completely different meaning to "lo que digan sus pistolas". I don't see how they are even close in any way.

The idea of someone "letting his guns do the talking", just as the phrase "letting your fists do the talking", has more to do with outright violence rather than posturing over trade. Indeed, we might end up at a point where he does let his guns do the talking if diplomacy fails with North Korea, but that bears no relation at all to NAFTA and Mexico-not yet at least-and hopefully it never will.
Robert Carter Mar 20, 2018:
I'm so glad you wrote that, Charles, I was about to post something along those lines when I saw your posting, but you've explained what I was trying to express perfectly.

By the way Tom, oddly, if you Google that phrase, it only turns up 37 actual results, most of them to do with actual warfare or shoot-outs.

Also, just a note about the phrase "listo para que sus pistola atruenen". To my mind, this is a variation on the idiomatic "tronar los chicharrones", i.e., "crack the whip", but substituting "pistolas" for "chicharrones" is a neat twist that anyone familiar with how Mexican "albur" or wordplay works would get immediately.

https://termbank.com/en/spanish-english/tronar los chicharro...
Marcelo González Mar 20, 2018:
@Charles - Either he pays 'no attention to advice' ...and is stupidly obstinate, or he's following, as you've said, a 'prepósito calculado' but I don't believe the author asserts both. The author praises Trump as appearing to be trenched-in, and ready with his guns blazing to destroy (or rip a gaping hole in) NAFTA. And yes, Trump may be obstinate, but I don't see why 'digan' could not or should not be rendered here in its usual way (i.e., say or tell), as 'let his guns do the talking' appears to convey the author's intent with a commonly used and contextually appropriate idiom.
Marcelo González Mar 19, 2018:
@Tom - Yes, 'let his guns do the talking' is ...frequently used in the U.S., as is the variant: 'let his guns do his talking (with a second 'his'), or even 'let his guns do the talking for him.' @Charles - I agree that Trump's waging a war of words, one delivered with a 'no holds barred,' bully-like approach, which makes it difficult for me not to associate this with 'force'---the underlying meaning (as you've pointed out) of my suggestion: 'let his guns do the talking.' I agree that 'shoot from the hip' does NOT work here, as 'parece estar atrincherado' and 'listo para que sus pistolas atruenen' convey quite the opposite of "shooting 'from the hip'" (which means 'unprepared').
Charles Davis Mar 19, 2018:
If one is determined to refer to guns, I think the best option would be "sticking to his guns", because the idea of obstinately going his own way and paying no attention to advice is closer to what the writer is saying than any of the alternatives. But to me it's not close enough to be worth it.
Charles Davis Mar 19, 2018:
I agree with Robert here. This phrase makes no sense until you relate it to "por sus pistolas"; once you do, it makes perfect sense. I don't believe there is any English expression with "gun" or "shooting" that captures the meaning at all and that the attempt to retain that reference in this particular phrase should be abandoned. It doesn't mean "shoot from the hip", which implies acting hastily without thinking it through. On the contrary, the whole article is based on the idea that Trump, though obviously an "absoluto desvergonzado", knows exactly what he's doing: his digressions are "voluntarias", he is following a "propósito calculado". And it doesn't mean "letting his guns do the talking", which would mean using force instead of talking. On the contrary, Trump is, as usual, waging a war of words. His verbal effectiveness is often overlooked by those who are outraged by him and would like to believe he's a trigger-happy buffoon.

This paragraph follows on from the previous bit about "marear la perdiz". Trump's negotiating tactics are so confusing and exasperating for the Mexican "partridges" that they are at a loss and he can "shoot" them at will.
Thomas Walker (asker) Mar 19, 2018:
Great discussion, everybody! I've been following the discussion here with great interest - thanks to everybody for their contributions.
I just a little while ago decided to do a Bing search for "Let his guns do the talking" & to my great surprise, got almost 23 million hits. I don't think I've ever used the phrase myself, but it seems to be an understandable, not-too-unidiomatic, English equivalent. I'm leaning towards a combo:
"Trump is determined to shoot from the hip, letting his guns do the talking. ..."
I agree that the guns thing is an important component of the Spanish original, & I want as much as possible to keep it in, to the extent possible without mangling the meaning for an English reader.
Marcelo González Mar 19, 2018:
@Robert As a number of scholars have suggested, translating social science and journalistic texts, where it's not just the content that matters but the rhetorical features as well, associative webs of meaning need to be taken into consideration, and 'pistolas,' in virtually any text involving Trump nowadays, will surely lead (news-savvy) readers to make associations of this type (on translating puns, often used for rhetorical purposes, in addition to stylistic reasons, see Brigid Maher in my thesis, 'Metaphor and Agency,' a link to which is included in my profile, if you're interested). I think if it's possible (and it appears to be) to include a bit of the pun, then why not?
Robert Carter Mar 19, 2018:
@Marcelo But that's exactly my point. Your use of "guns" here seems to mean everything and nothing, yet the Spanish is very precise.
In my opinion, the idea of an "associative web of terms and expressions" has more to do with poetry than political commentary.
If you read the article, there is absolutely no mention of anything concerning the gun debate, Florida, the NRA, or even GOP funding. The article is an opinion piece specifically on Trump's initiative to start a trade war and and renegotiate NAFTA with Mexico, that's all.

Incidentally, I don't even think this figurative usage is important to the piece overall; the "pistolas" metaphor is only used in this one paragraph, it's not a running theme throughout the article. Personally, I wouldn't bother particularly with trying to force a rendering of this pun in English.
Wendy Streitparth Mar 18, 2018:
Another thought: "decided to stick to his guns".
Marcelo González Mar 18, 2018:
@Robert - I see 'guns' as being part of an... ...associative web of terms and expressions, including, for example, to approach an issue or activity 'guns a-blazing', which refers to doing something without fear, i.e., throwing yourself into it, guns first. Listening to 'his guns' could be listening to those groups who most fervently support gun rights, as well as referring to his 'big guns' (a common idiom in the U.S.), which normally would refer to influential people, organizations, high-powered attorneys, lobbyists, including, especially here, the National Rifle Association (NRA)---the biggest of his big guns who have supported Trump and others of his conservative ilk to the tune of millions of dollars in campaign funding. So yes, there are many possible figurative meanings at play here, alongside the obvious literal connection to an issue that is increasingly in the news.
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 17, 2018:
Carter hits the mark again; the point with a pun/wordplay in English is not how it resonates in our Spanish brains but how does it work for an English native. To do what his guns tell him was brought forward just as long as it may be understandable within this very discussion but not as a proposal; Robert had already stated this does not work in English.
A different thing would be to fit in an existing expression -as shooting from the hip, or as trigger-happy as ormiston suggests. The latter could also be used as an approximation to the original [resolved to keep up with his trigger-happy actions (?)]. As before, the real problem is that you will either need to explicitly convey the two ideas with which the Spanish original plays -breaking thus the rhythm of the text- or else sacrifice the original wordplay and convey just one of them meanings -as Carter initially suggested, as most puns are simply untranslatable.
Or create just a new pun that is somehow close to the original (as with shoot from the hip, trigger-happy, etc.).
Robert Carter Mar 17, 2018:
@Marcelo But what are you suggesting "guns" is a metaphor of? I don't understand what "his pistols" would be, figuratively speaking, so I fail to see how it relates to "doing whatever he wants".

The metaphor "por sus pistolas" (like the more vulgar versions "por sus huevos/cojones") in the Spanish is clear, but we don't use that expression in English. I can't see how anyone could interpret "doing whatever their pistols tell them" as meaning "doing whatever they want".
Marcelo González Mar 17, 2018:
@Saltasebes - parecido a lo que señalo ...en mi nota: 'determined to do whatever his pistols [i.e., guns]...tell him.' Figurative language with a possible literal interpretation as well.
ormiston Mar 17, 2018:
trigger-happy Keeps the metaphor, but I appreciate the discussion here, it's just a suggestion.
https://www.google.fr/url?q=https://dictionary.cambridge.org...
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 17, 2018:
I actually like that one; shooting from the hip!
Although you are right it is a bit weak; improvisation is alright within the context but it misses the nuance of doing whatever he likes.
Maybe sacrificing brevity -and maybe literality- , he is resolved to do whatever he likes [and keep / by] shooting from the hip...
Robert Carter Mar 17, 2018:
@Saltasebes Yes, you're right, though I couldn't think of anything that really ties the meaning in with that metaphor in English.

It just occurred to me that "shoot from the hip" might work in terms of word play. Although it's not really the meaning here, the context is that Trump is ultimately reacting to situations without any kind of careful consideration of the consequences (and by implication doing whatever he wants). It's a little tenuous I suppose, but if you want to keep the metaphor...

shoot from the hip
PHRASE

informal
React without careful consideration of one's words or actions.
‘he is shooting from the hip in an act of political desperation’
https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/shoot_from_the_...
Chema Nieto Castañón Mar 17, 2018:
I think Robert Carter is right but he misses the original play with the literal meaning of the expression, which is used all over the text;
Hacer lo que digan sus pistolas
Guerras comerciales
Estar atrincherado
Listo para que sus pistolas atruenen
Reviente de una buena vez el peor tratado
...

Stronger though than just to stick to his guns, the original conveys both, the idea of hacer lo que le sale de los coj... (to do as he pleases) and that of "to do as his guns tell or force him to do"; to do as his violent guts/guns tell. 

Not sure though how to convey both ideas without allowing for just a literal interpretation of guns/pistols here.

Proposed translations

+6
41 mins
Selected

to do whatever he likes / do whatever he pleases / go it alone

I don't quite know how to explain this, but it's very clear to me that this is what it means and that it's a variation on the idiom "por sus pistolas", which basically means "on someone's own initiative" or more colloquially, "whatever [the hell] he or she wants".

I suppose it could be stretched to mean "go it alone" or "be his own man" here, or even "thumb his nose at everyone", which is basically what's going on here, i.e., Trump couldn't care less about what anyone else says, he'll do whatever he pleases.

pistola
3 Por sus pistolas (Coloq) Por propia iniciativa o por su cuenta, sin que nadie se lo pida o sin pedir permiso: “Natalia cambió el esquema por sus pistolas”
http://dem.colmex.mx
This is not a direct link, you need to search for "pistola".

Peer comment(s):
agree Andy Watkinson : The Spain version of this has the decision-making organs in question located at a spot midway between the hips and dangling a bit further down.
46 mins
Ha ha, thanks, Andy.
agree Muriel Vasconcellos : Or 'whatever he wants' -- 'want' is a big word for Trump, more like -- well, I won't spell it out.
2 hrs
Thanks, Muriel, I feel your pain :-)
agree Robert Forstag : “Shoots from the hip” would seem perfect here.
11 hrs
Thanks, Robert, I'll leave it as an option, although I do think it strays from the actual meaning of the phrase.
agree Manuel Aburto
12 hrs
Thanks, Manuel.
agree Chema Nieto Castañón : Definitely the pun is not so relevant so as to force a different translation than to do as he likes/pleases, which is the main point of the original expression... Nice trip though! ;)
1 day 23 hrs
Thanks for all your input, Saltasebes :-)
agree Charles Davis : I agree with you that the meaning is that of "por sus pistolas". This lexicalised metaphor is being re-semanticised, but we can't reproduce that. I think "shoot from the hip" is the wrong idea; the writer implies that Trump knows what he's doing.
2 days 20 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
+1
32 mins

to let his guns do the talking

This text is steeped in figurative language alluding to guns/pistols and such---in reaction or response to Trump's comments in the context of the recent school shooting in Florida and the ongoing debate on gun rights in the US.

Literally, it's: "He's determined to do whatever his pistols say/tell him," i.e., he'll let his guns do the talking.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Robert Carter : Hi Marcelo. I'm almost 100% certain that this is not the meaning, "pistolas" is figurative.
17 mins
Exactly, it IS figurative, Robert, hence my mentioning (above) that 'the text is steeped in figurative language.' With 'guerras' (comerciales) and being 'atricherado,' 'to let his guns do the talking' is a common idiom and a valid option in this context.
agree Jessica Noyes
13 hrs
Thanks Jessica :-)
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1 hr

following his gut instinct

Trump is bent on

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-03-17 02:33:58 GMT)
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in the sense of not worrying about what anybody else might say

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-03-17 02:35:47 GMT)
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this is very figurative, so lots of room for interpretation

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-03-17 02:36:22 GMT)
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maybe "going with his gut"

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-03-17 02:55:17 GMT)
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Trump is bent on going with his gut

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-03-17 02:55:52 GMT)
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I think this catches it

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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-03-17 03:18:41 GMT)
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how about "hits from the hip"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2018-03-17 03:19:58 GMT)
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in the sense of couldn't give a tinkers suss about what anybody else thinks

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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-03-17 03:20:34 GMT)
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cuss

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Note added at 2 hrs (2018-03-17 03:22:23 GMT)
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to keep the idea of pistols which normally would go off from the hip
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5 hrs

to shoot it out

-
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Reference comments

1 hr
Reference:

Refs.

Tom's context alludes to NAFTA's trouble (Canada and Mexico), and various pronoucements by Trump. I went searching for some English reports. The last link mentions "trade wars are good and easy to win", a part of the original text:

https://www.ft.com/content/17bcd6da-3bdd-11e7-821a-6027b8a20...

Donald Trump has fired the starting gun on renegotiations of the North American Free Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico, with his administration notifying Congress on Thursday that it planned to begin formal talks as soon as August. 


https://www.bnn.ca/trade-wars-are-good-and-easy-to-win-trump...
U.S. President Donald Trump said on Friday trade wars were good and easy to win, striking a defiant tone after global criticism of his plan to slap tariffs on imports of steel and aluminum that triggered a slide in world stock markets.

Actual tweet:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
When a country (USA) is losing many billions of dollars on trade with virtually every country it does business with, trade wars are good, and easy to win. Example, when we are down $100 billion with a certain country and they get cute, don’t trade anymore-we win big. It’s easy!

I am inclined to agree with Robert and his interpretation. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-02/trump-s-s...
President Donald Trump’s latest trade salvo over steel and aluminum landed squarely in the middle of Nafta talks, overshadowing efforts by his own negotiators and those from his biggest export markets to update America’s most important free-trade agreement.

After a day of will-he-or-won’t-he chatter, Trump announced Thursday he intended to slap tariffs of 25 percent on steel imports and 10 percent on aluminum imports. Specifics are unclear, including whether some countries may still be exempt, but the implications rippled through the seventh round of talks on the North American Free Trade Agreement in Mexico City.
Peer comments on this reference comment:
agree Robert Carter : Yes, that's it Taña, the idea conveyed by "por sus pistolas" is that of "defiance". Quite apart from the international community, Trump is defying virtually everyone in his own party with these tariffs.
38 mins
Thank you Robert.
agree Juan Jacob : Como dice Robert... "por sus pistolas" es la expresión consagrada. Sentido figurativo: lo que le venga en gana (Con actitud prepotente, claro).
46 mins
Gracias Juan.
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