Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

normalement ouverte

English translation:

duly established

Added to glossary by pooja_chic
Jan 9, 2018 15:13
6 yrs ago
1 viewer *
French term

normalement ouverte

French to English Social Sciences General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Ecole catholique arts et metiers, normalement ouverte selon la loi du 25 Juillet 1919
Proposed translations (English)
3 +6 duly established
Change log

Jan 9, 2018 15:18: writeaway changed "Field" from "Other" to "Social Sciences"

Discussion

Daryo Jan 10, 2018:
if you take a look under the hub of this loi du 25 Juillet 1919 you see the whole story of separation of State and Church in France and "laicité de l'enseignement" unfolding, with religious school trying to get state funding by pretending that they are mainly teaching "arts et métiers" ... so it's quite plausible that this school initially tried but failed to pass itself off as being into "enseignement technique industriel et commercial" OR could've asked for state funding (i.e. be established under this loi du 25 Juillet 1919) but some some reason or another didn't want to.

Other possible meaning: "regularly" in the sense "nothing out of the ordinary" i.e. that it wasn't any kind of special case.

To repeat myself for the umpteenth time: as much as it can be a very interesting exercise to guess what few words could mean without any context to speak of, it's not helping much the Asker.

IOW what's the rest of the sentence?
katsy Jan 9, 2018:
Just to say that I agree with all ph-b says at 19.51.
ph-b (X) Jan 9, 2018:
aurait dû normalement être ouverte? I too (and katsy, apparently) wondered about the possible meaning of normalement here and this is why I was careful to choose CL3 for my answer. But for Daryo to be right, I would expect something like aurait dû normalement être ouverte selon..., mais.... That, however, does not appear in the extract given to us and my instinct as a native speaker is that if Daryo's answer is correct, the extract itself would not have omitted the conditionnel passé. Of course, I agree with Daryo that the surrounding text would be useful. One last thing, régulièrement, i.e. according to the rule(s), is listed as one of the synonyms of normalement by TLFi.
Daryo Jan 9, 2018:
how about posting at least a whole sentence?

This sounds to me like the beginning of a sentence where

École catholique des arts et métiers, normalement ouverte selon la loi du 25 Juillet 1919, ...

is followed by an explanation why this school was in fact established under some other law.

[which, by the way, would be a perfectly "normal" use of "normalement" and there wouldn't be any need to start stretching and twisting its meaning to fit an interpretation based on the assumption that "normalement ouverte selon la loi du 25 Juillet 1919" is some kind of standalone legal term just because of the way the question was asked...]
ph-b (X) Jan 9, 2018:
normalement I agree with katsy that normalement should be understood to mean "as planned" by (= according to the provisions of) the law of July 1919.
katsy Jan 9, 2018:
context? "normalement" can mean "in normal circumstances" i.e., "as planned, as expected", or "should" (si tout va bien) e.g. normalement l'école ouvrira à l'automne.
Without more context it is impossible to decide, in my opinion, though I feel rather doubtful about the "si tout va bien" a priori.

Proposed translations

+6
42 mins
Selected

duly established

"...school established under the provisions of the law enacted?/act passed? on 25.07.1919..."

As in the following examples, perhaps:

(Education Act [Cap 262] - PacLII
www.paclii.org › Databases
Traduire cette page
(b) establish or maintain hostels in connexion with schools established or maintained under the provisions of this Act, and make grants or advances in aid of the ..... by or under the provisions of this Act may be signified by the chairman or secretary of such Board, Committee or other body, or by any member thereof duly ...

1872 Public School Act - VIU
https://www2.viu.ca/homeroom/content/topics/.../1872act.htm
Traduire cette page
To establish a separate School for females in any District where they may deem it expedient to do so; and such School, when so established, may be presided over by a female Teacher or Teachers, but otherwise shall be subject to the same obligations and regulations as Public Schools generally under this Act:.

Suggestion à tout hasard...

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Note added at 47 mins (2018-01-09 16:00:58 GMT)
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I think that normalement refers to the fact that the school was established according to whatever rules, principles, etc., were laid out by that law.

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Note added at 1 hr (2018-01-09 16:13:44 GMT)
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If anyone is interested, the text of Loi relative à l'organisation de l'enseignement technique industriel et commercial (dite loi Astier) du 25 juillet 1919 is on this French govt site: http://www.education.gouv.fr/cid101193/loi-relative-a-l-orga...
The bit about private technical school is under Titre IV.

Wikipedia summarizes it here:
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loi_Astier
Note from asker:
Thank you
Peer comment(s):

agree Francois Boye
27 mins
agree Philippa Smith
44 mins
agree Jennifer White
58 mins
agree AllegroTrans
2 hrs
agree B D Finch
2 hrs
disagree Daryo : sounds to me like a weird use of "normalment", [http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/normalement] and without the whole sentence the quoted fragment is ways too ambiguous ... see discussion. // more CL1 with what's available.
2 hrs
That's what CL3 is for. See discussion.
agree katsy
4 hrs
agree Tony M : Yes, I have often encountered 'normalement' used in this way as a synonym for 'régulièrement'
17 hrs
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you"
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