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façage
Feb 21, 2004 01:27
20 yrs ago
11 viewers *
French term

décliné

French to English Bus/Financial Accounting
Cet objectif ambitieux a été décliné au niveau des cadres opérationnels, avec un intéressement individuel indexé sur la valeur créée.

This is from a text on Economic Value Added. I'm not sure what the whole sentence means, especially what it means by "a été décliné".

Thanks for your help
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 see explanation and proposed sentence
5 +1 turned down
5 "applied to"
4 adapted
5 -1 rejected
5 -1 takes the form as far as operational executives are concerned of etc
3 -1 made available to
3 -1 implemented

Proposed translations

+1
2 days 16 hrs
French term (edited): d�clin�
Selected

see explanation and proposed sentence

I think this is a case where the only way to do justice to what the French means is to work around the problem: Déclner is one of those words that gives translators a lot of grief. My suggestion here would be to provide a clear English rendering of what the sentence actually means rather than trying to force words like "adapt" and "take the form of" to fit when they just don't. If I were translating this document, I would write: "For the organization's operational managers (or line managers if you prefer), individual bonus awards were tied to this ambitious value creation target."
I'm assuming here that the managers work for a company, and also that value creation is measured in terms of ROE, Economic Value Added or some other standard performance indicator. If information is provided elsewhere in the source text as to what the "ambitious objective" is, you might consider adding "as measured by ROE" (or whatever the target is). I can't be 100% sure without the full context, although I'm sure of what your sentence means.
Peer comment(s):
agree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : it';s important to get at least a ballpark meaning prior to rewrite. I don't disagree with your strategy but you must see that people have NO CLUE about delcine..rather than just say it provides grief to translators...let the asker figure out the rewrite
1 day 51 mins
"People" deserve a little more credit than you give them. It's not that "they" have no clue. The term is hard to capture in English. Some words give grief to translators, and pointing that out can help. There are many possible rewrites. I gave just one.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks"
+1
5 mins

turned down

the project was turned down
Peer comment(s):
agree Giulia Barontini
28 mins
agree varadinum tr (X)
6 hrs
neutral Richard Benham : Doesn't make any sense in the context.
8 hrs
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : sorry. This is a very tricky use of decline and it has nothing to do with the notion of rejecting or turning down. It has to do with the form of something. La gamme du produit se décline etc. See? Kindly see my answer below.
12 hrs
agree Yves Johnson
1 day 15 hrs
disagree dreamworld (X) : makes no sense in this context
2 days 16 hrs
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1 hr

adapted

décliné as in Latin declination, i.e. adjusting a concept to different situations. The fashion industry uses the phrase a lot.

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Note added at 2004-02-23 03:14:05 (GMT)
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Richard: it\'s mens, mensis, 3rd declension.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Benham : Mensa mensa mensam mensae.... Makes more sense than "rejected" or "turned down". But I would like some references for this sense.
6 hrs
read a French fashion magazine when you have a chance.
agree LilyBart
8 hrs
Thanks Elaine!
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : take the form...not adapted which implies a change there is no change here
11 hrs
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-1
6 hrs
French term (edited): d�clin�

rejected

I agree with turned down, but this could be another option.

Good luck!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Benham : Accords with usual dictionary definition, but makes no sens in context.
2 hrs
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : this is a CONTRESENSE...not the meaning sorry
6 hrs
Jane, how can you agree with 'turn down' and disagree with 'reject'? They are synonyms.
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-1
6 hrs
French term (edited): d�clin�

made available to

If it was turned down, the French would probably read 'décliné par'
Adapted for or made available to seems more logical in light of the phrase.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : no it just does not mean this...see below
6 hrs
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7 hrs

"applied to"

Definitely not "turned down". "Décliner" in the sense of a verb declination. The idea was applied, rolled out, put in place. Something along those lines.

Edward
Peer comment(s):
neutral Richard Benham : You conjugate verbs, and decline nouns, adjectives and pronouns.
54 mins
agree LilyBart : Definitely not turned down. The idea or practice was transposed to be applied or adapted to a new situation or group of people. In this specific context I like "rolled out ".
2 hrs
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : better but still not spot on see below
5 hrs
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-1
13 hrs
French term (edited): d�clin�

implemented

'implemented', in the sense of 'enabled'. In Harraps dictionary it gives an example of decliner being used in this sense 'une gamme d'ordinateurs declinable en plusieurs configurations'='a range of computers enabling several different configurations'.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Jane Lamb-Ruiz (X) : close but implemented is really mis en place or somesuch though this does pass
7 mins
Something went wrong...
-1
13 hrs
French term (edited): d�clin�

takes the form as far as operational executives are concerned of etc

the verb décliner is used in French, especially in marketing texts, to means TO DEVELOP but ESPECIALLY to TAKE THE FORM OF It has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with adaptation, or rejection or turning down...

It's like decline un verbe......and I repeat
it means= to take the form of which is what to decline a verb means in fact!

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Note added at 13 hrs 9 mins (2004-02-21 14:36:38 GMT)
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sorry...I meant to say decliner un nom.....

decline a word means to give it a form and this meaning of decliner means that

to give something the form of

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Note added at 13 hrs 9 mins (2004-02-21 14:37:18 GMT)
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OR

to take the form of



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Note added at 19 hrs 47 mins (2004-02-21 21:14:35 GMT)
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Sorry below. I meant TIBERERIU.

If you read my answer carefully, you will see that my answer is the knowledge I have of this question. What can I tell you? It is, in this case, a fact. Decliner means to take the form of....because a declension is a FORM of the word...ie ablative, accusative, nominative...those are FORMS.

Cheers
Peer comment(s):
disagree varadinum tr (X) : if it has nothing to do with turning down, why did you agree with turn down? :) Do you have any reference to support your opinion? I could not find any.
1 hr
It was a mistake of the button Tiberiau...turn down and reject are wrong. I pushed the wrong button but WROTE that I disagree. My evidence is my knowledge of French. I know decliner is what I describe in my answer. I am myown reference. :)
neutral mportal : so, then, in the context given, 'take the form of' what? You may be correct, but I can't see how this fits in.
1 day 2 hrs
At least I am in the ballpark. I can rewrite or translate or produce great translations but here one can see that what was needed was a clue for those who haven't one.
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