Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Mar 5, 2017 10:40
7 yrs ago
4 viewers *
French term
hors-jeu
Non-PRO
French to English
Bus/Financial
Finance (general)
lending
Part of conclusions. There are so many meaning for the term, however I'm not finding any for the financial field.
Le financement de EUR 10 millions et la suspension des droits ont été accordés sous réserve d'un nombre de conditionis décrites dans la Suspension of Rights Letter, y compris les obligations supplémentaire de déclaration.
Au cours de la période débutant à la mi-mai 2003, la valeur du Company A avait profondément affecté la Dette Senior et les Prêteurs Mezzanine étaient par conséquent *** "hors-jeu." *** Ceci incluait des évaluation internes fournies par Company B et Company C, qui avaient valorisé le Company A à EUR 20 millions et avait déprécié la valeur de leurs intérêts à néant.
Le financement de EUR 10 millions et la suspension des droits ont été accordés sous réserve d'un nombre de conditionis décrites dans la Suspension of Rights Letter, y compris les obligations supplémentaire de déclaration.
Au cours de la période débutant à la mi-mai 2003, la valeur du Company A avait profondément affecté la Dette Senior et les Prêteurs Mezzanine étaient par conséquent *** "hors-jeu." *** Ceci incluait des évaluation internes fournies par Company B et Company C, qui avaient valorisé le Company A à EUR 20 millions et avait déprécié la valeur de leurs intérêts à néant.
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Mar 5, 2017 12:11: Jennifer White changed "Level" from "PRO" to "Non-PRO"
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:
PRO (2): Daryo, Yolanda Broad
Non-PRO (3): Nikki Scott-Despaigne, Rachel Fell, Jennifer White
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Proposed translations
12 hrs
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
Native in English
Specializes in field
United Kingdom
Sensible solutions
Native in: English (Variant: Wessexois) 
Works in: French to English, English, English to French
Related KudoZ points
:
267
Selected
excluded
I offer this "neutral" solution
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: I might have pushed it a bit far in the opposite direction, but compared to the ST, it's too mild / bland / ...
1 day 4 hrs
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"hors-jeu" is basically neutral and means no more than "left out"
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
1 hr
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native in English
Psychologist, Court-certified legal
Native in: English
Works in: French to English
Related KudoZ points
:
162
French term (edited):
être hors-jeu
to fail to respect the rules/regs, to be out of line, to be out of order, to fall foul of the rules
You won't find a meaning for this term that is specific to the financial field, or at least, that is not the point here, given the way the term is used in this sentence. A number of the ordinary meanings for the term will work here.
Go to the standard dictionary meaning, a literal one, and then find a synonymous term or expression that fits your context.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/_hors-jeu/4042...
Dans certains sports d'équipe, faute commise par un joueur qui se place sur le terrain d'une manière interdite par les règles. (Tant qu'il est dans cette position irrégulière, il n'a plus le droit d'intervenir dans le jeu, sous peine de sanction).
So, the main idea is that someone has done something that is prohibited, either by the formal written rules, or the unwritten ones. Your greater context should help you on that point. That will enable you to find a suitable synonym. In any event, the individual or group in question has done something that is not allowed.
In English, literally, the term would be "off-side". Although not appropriate here, it could be a starting point to get yourself on track for suitable solutions.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/hors-j...
hors-jeu [ʼɔrʒø]
adjectif invariable
offside
le joueur est hors-jeu the player is offside
hors-jeu [ʼɔrʒø]
nom masculin invariable
offside
You give no indication of the style you are adopting in this text. Icannot "pitch" suggestions in a useful way. Some suggestions: in formal texts, one can sometimes get away with quite informal expressions; in a professional publication to a certain extent, or a journalistic context, all the more so. However, if there is a sepcific reference to the rules and regulations that have been breached, then a more formal expression is best.
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-03-05 15:38:19 GMT)
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Rough working drafts:
From mid-May onwards, the value of A had a profound effect on DS. As a result, the PM fell foul of the regulations. This included internal valuations furnished by B and C, which had valued A at 20 million and [had] depreciated the value of their interest to nil.
During the period in question, the value of A had had a profound effect on DS. As a result, the PM were "hors-jeu". This (this=the situation??? OR the fact of being "hors-jeu"??? Thus "the same was true of/could be said of???) included internal assessments (valuations?) supplied by B and C, which (assessments/valuations) had valued A at EUR 20M and [had] depreciated the value of their interest to nil.
Go to the standard dictionary meaning, a literal one, and then find a synonymous term or expression that fits your context.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/_hors-jeu/4042...
Dans certains sports d'équipe, faute commise par un joueur qui se place sur le terrain d'une manière interdite par les règles. (Tant qu'il est dans cette position irrégulière, il n'a plus le droit d'intervenir dans le jeu, sous peine de sanction).
So, the main idea is that someone has done something that is prohibited, either by the formal written rules, or the unwritten ones. Your greater context should help you on that point. That will enable you to find a suitable synonym. In any event, the individual or group in question has done something that is not allowed.
In English, literally, the term would be "off-side". Although not appropriate here, it could be a starting point to get yourself on track for suitable solutions.
http://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/hors-j...
hors-jeu [ʼɔrʒø]
adjectif invariable
offside
le joueur est hors-jeu the player is offside
hors-jeu [ʼɔrʒø]
nom masculin invariable
offside
You give no indication of the style you are adopting in this text. Icannot "pitch" suggestions in a useful way. Some suggestions: in formal texts, one can sometimes get away with quite informal expressions; in a professional publication to a certain extent, or a journalistic context, all the more so. However, if there is a sepcific reference to the rules and regulations that have been breached, then a more formal expression is best.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-03-05 15:38:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Rough working drafts:
From mid-May onwards, the value of A had a profound effect on DS. As a result, the PM fell foul of the regulations. This included internal valuations furnished by B and C, which had valued A at 20 million and [had] depreciated the value of their interest to nil.
During the period in question, the value of A had had a profound effect on DS. As a result, the PM were "hors-jeu". This (this=the situation??? OR the fact of being "hors-jeu"??? Thus "the same was true of/could be said of???) included internal assessments (valuations?) supplied by B and C, which (assessments/valuations) had valued A at EUR 20M and [had] depreciated the value of their interest to nil.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: how would that fit in this context? The limited quote of the ST might not be enough to get the overall register 100% right, but is more than enough to see what's happening with monetary flows, or the lack of it for some unlucky players ...
2 hrs
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Daryo, more context is needed, but I'm not sure that the Asker has much more. I have provided an example of how one of my suggestions might fit the meaning. Netiquette: is is really necessary to shout (capitals)?
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| agree |
writeaway
: don't see how this can be categorically ruled out. maybe a neutral in case of doubt but certainly not to be dismissed
3 hrs
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Yes, it may not be the best fit. It is a possibility but we are in difficulty w/o more context. Or, should I say, I am! Perhaps I should have put a 3/5 confidence level.
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: I cannot quite see how that fits into the overall text
3 hrs
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I've posted an additional note with an illustration. I'd like to have more context. The Asker would too, I believe.
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-1
3 hrs
kicked out of the game / left out in the cold / hanged out to dry / out of the picture & similar
because the total level/amount of money potentially available for repayment of all debts has sunk quite low, only the top-priority creditors have any prospective of being repaid - there would nothing left to repay the middle-ranking creditors, let alone low ranking creditors.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2017-03-05 14:23:58 GMT)
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BTW I don't think it's any kind of "financial jargon", sounds more like the kind of strong imagery favoured by aggressive financial traders / wheeler-dealer & Co...
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Note added at 4 hrs (2017-03-05 14:42:07 GMT)
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Au cours de la période débutant à la mi-mai 2003, la valeur du Company A avait profondément affecté la Dette Senior et les Prêteurs Mezzanine étaient par conséquent "hors-jeu."
=>
the high ranking creditors took a serious hit (won't get all the money they expected) and as a consequence the middle ranking creditors will end up empty handed i.e. "out of the [financial] game [of investing and getting interests]"
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Note added at 6 hrs (2017-03-05 17:26:35 GMT)
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that's the risk you take if you are not at the head of the queue for repayment - in case of troubles, instead of every creditor getting back the same fraction of the full repayment, the first ones get repaid in full, those below in ranking get only what is left - if zilch is left - tough luck!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2017-03-05 14:23:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
BTW I don't think it's any kind of "financial jargon", sounds more like the kind of strong imagery favoured by aggressive financial traders / wheeler-dealer & Co...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-03-05 14:42:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Au cours de la période débutant à la mi-mai 2003, la valeur du Company A avait profondément affecté la Dette Senior et les Prêteurs Mezzanine étaient par conséquent "hors-jeu."
=>
the high ranking creditors took a serious hit (won't get all the money they expected) and as a consequence the middle ranking creditors will end up empty handed i.e. "out of the [financial] game [of investing and getting interests]"
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2017-03-05 17:26:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
that's the risk you take if you are not at the head of the queue for repayment - in case of troubles, instead of every creditor getting back the same fraction of the full repayment, the first ones get repaid in full, those below in ranking get only what is left - if zilch is left - tough luck!
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
writeaway
: 100% confidence based solely on your opinion and 'helped' by zapping/discrediting a colleague's answer? Not exactly fair play imo/how does this fit the register of the ST? hanged out to dry?
21 mins
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I was under the impression that the aim of this game is to get the right meaning of a term as used in a concrete ST, and yes I'm 101% sure of the intended meaning in this ST!
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| neutral |
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
: This is one possible reading, not that far from mine BTW. Familiar language can be used in this type of context. I too have said that I don't think the term is being used with specific financial meaning. However, the register here is overly colloquial.
1 hr
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once you get the nuance of meaning right, fine tuning the register is a lesser problem // easier to do if you have the whole ST available
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| neutral |
Jennifer White
: it is "hung", not "hanged"
4 hrs
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Thanks for correcting!
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| neutral |
AllegroTrans
: right idea, but OTT register in my view since we don't know whether the ST intended this tone
9 hrs
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once you solve the major problem of getting the nuance of meaning right, fine tuning the register is a lesser problem ...
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| neutral |
B D Finch
: Only "hanged" if it's "by the neck until dead"; otherwise "hung". Wrong register and too strong compared to source term.
1 day 2 hrs
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Thanks for correcting! Should've checked ...
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8 hrs
Wendy Streitparth
Germany
Germany
Native in English
Germany
45 years experience
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: German to English, French to English, Spanish to English, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
12
lost out
possibly
Discussion
BTW the "s" is also missing from "des évaluation[s] internes" ... Proofreading done too fast?
Is the second "avait" plural?
From what I can see:
During the period in question, the value of A had had a profound effect on DS. As a result, the PM were "hors-jeu". This (this=the situation??? OR the fact of being "hors-jeu"??? Thus "the same was true of/could be said of???) included internal assessments (valuations?) supplied by B and C, which (assessments/valuations) had valued A at EUR 20M and [had] depreciated the value of their interest to nil.