Glossary entry

Dutch term or phrase:

beëindiging om dringende reden LASTENS / TEN LASTE VAN

English translation:

termination for just cause PRECIPITATED BY/BASED ON THE FAULT OF

Added to glossary by Lotte Nouwkens
Jan 6, 2016 11:28
8 yrs ago
9 viewers *
Dutch term

beëindiging om dringende reden LASTENS / TEN LASTE VAN

Dutch to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) arbeidsovereenkomst
beëindiging om dringende reden(en) *lastens* de werknemer / *lastens* de werknemer / *ten laste van*

Voor *lastens de werknemer* heb ik tot nu toe niets beters gevonden dan een omschrijving "termination for cause of the employee's contract by the employer", maar dat past niet overal in de tekst, en hoe dan die *lastens de werkgever* te vertalen?

Alle suggesties welkom.

Hieronder één voorbeeld uit de overeenkomst:

"De werknemer verbindt er zich toe om in geval van beëindiging van onderhavige arbeidsovereenkomst door de werkgever omwille van een dringende reden ten last van de werknemer of door de werknemer, tenzij deze laatste beëindigt wegens dringende reden ten laste van de werkgever, noch direct, noch indirect soortgelijke activiteiten uit te oefenen ..... "
Change log

Jan 6, 2016 12:19: writeaway changed "Language pair" from "Flemish to English" to "Dutch to English"

Discussion

Michael Beijer Jul 20, 2016:
changed my mind I have started using:

just cause (‘dringende reden’)

in my own translations. I think Sindy was probably right.
Michael Beijer Jan 13, 2016:
Yes, you are a legal specialist. I get it. Congratulations.
sindy cremer Jan 13, 2016:
"Translating legal texts (...) and having actual legal training (...) are two different things."

So true.
Michael Beijer Jan 13, 2016:
yet another sad attempt ... ... at making yourself feel better, by putting others down. Very nice.

Translating legal texts (which I have been doing for many years) and having actual legal training (which I am lacking) are two different things.
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
Ah... no, then I misunderstood completely. I mistook you for a legal specialist. Since that is on your profile. But you're right, let's just laugh about it. :)
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
I meant: "people without a legal background" ... like me. Geddit? it was a joke. Since I am not a legal genius, like some superhuman people here, I can still afford to laugh at myself. I have nothing to lose (and so much more to gain).
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
like me! Thanks.
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
literal translations to get the message across, to make it easy for people without a legal background.
While searching for this particular comment, maybe you missed my agree and comment to Steven's answer?
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy: Over @ http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/human_resources/4...

You said:

"FWIW and for future reference:
According to Dutch law, employment may be terminated for two 'substantial reasons' (the so-called gewichtige redenen); these are the 'urgent reason' (dringende reden) and 'change of circumstances' (indeed, verandering van omstandigheden). Alexander's restructuring would fall into the second category and is thus a 'gewichtige reden' but not a 'dringende reden'."

How does this fit in?
Kitty Brussaard Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy Quite likely :-). Still I'm puzzled why they decided to leave in this direct translation of the Dutch term at all (and why they decided to put cause in quotes), the more so as this publication seems to be quite 'solid' in terms of overall quality.
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
@Kitty I'm guessing here: maybe because the Dutch part was originally prepared by a Dutchman?
Kitty Brussaard Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy Indeed, I'm sure they did. But why bother then with using the term "urgent reasons" at all?
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
I think that, in Dutch, the English concept of "termination for cause" means:

"contract wordt voortijdig beëindigd omdat één van de partijen zich (meerdere malen) niet aan de contractuele verplichtingen heeft gehouden"

However, these so-called "dringende redenen" are something different. Just look at the list of (deranged, crazy) stuff @ http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0005290/Boek7/Titel10/Afdeling... (BW 7:678 "Dringende redenen zullen onder andere aanwezig geacht kunnen worden:" […])

... "misleiding", "mishandeling", "dronkenschap", "diefstal", "verduistering, bedrog of andere misdrijven", "roekeloosheid ", etc.

... sounds more like "serious" or "gross misconduct" to me, than "just cause"
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
@Kitty Don't you think they're adding 'for cause' in brackets to make English readers understand what 'urgent reasons', the literal translation of dringende redenen, refers to in Englsh law?
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Richard: There is nothing wrong with "attributable to the fault of", in English legal language.
Kitty Brussaard Jan 10, 2016:
Re: actually, ... An employment agreement in The Netherlands will terminate by operation of law after expiration of the initial fixed period of time (as long as it is not renewed), and can be terminated (i) by mutual consent, (ii) during the trial period, (iii) immediately for “urgent reasons” (for “cause”), (iv) by giving notice, or (v) by court decision pursuant to Article 7:865 of the Dutch Civil Code.
http://tinyurl.com/jctflu7
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
@ Michael Beijer Whatever. I already stopped taking this seriously when you mentioned 'it isn't like the reader won't be able to understand what is meant'.
Richard Purdom Jan 10, 2016:
'just cause' I have removed my answer in the light of all this, 'just cause' is something everybody understands, 'urgent reasons' just sounds ridiculous to me.

Will you be doing the same Michael, since your preferred translation now isn't even in your list of answers?

BTW Michael I still think the part in brackets in 'attributable to (the fault of) the employee' is superfluous and illogical, even your own refs don't limit things to 'faults', and using 'the' is wrong anyway. Yet you say that this was EXACTLY the answer given to you by Aart, so I wonder what your question to him was precisely?
Kitty Brussaard Jan 10, 2016:
Re: I hate to rain on other people's parade, but Never mind, it has been raining here most of the day anyway :-)
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
actually, ... ...the more I Google this particular issue, the more I am starting to think that the best solution would be to use "urgent reasons", but to
(1) put it in quotes, to indicate that it is a specifically Dutch/Belgian phrase / legal concept, and
(2) follow it with the Dutch in brackets

I think this might be better than dressing this rather specifically Dutch phrase in English clothing and trying to pass it off as British.

thusly:

termination in the event ‘urgent reasons’ (dringende redenen) attributable to (the fault of) the employee
termination in the event an ‘urgent cause’ (dringende redenen) attributable to (the fault of) the employee
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
I already did (provide you with UK refs). Granted, they are mainly from UK universities, but is that really so terrible? However, I too would probably translate it as "for just cause" (definitely followed by the Dutch in brackets), as this phrase is more common in English legal writing. Although I am not yet confident I have the full picture, but luckily this doesn't matter as I am not the one tasked with translating it at present.

However, since we are talking about either Dutch or Belgian law here (and not UK or US law), and the phrases "for urgent reasons" and "for an urgent cause" are quite often used, in exactly these contexts, it isn't like the reader won't be able to understand what is meant.

~

En dan is er natuurlijk dit, in Kittys ref: "de aanduiding ‘just cause’ in de FIFA- reglementen heeft een groter bereik dan de in het Nederlandse arbeidsrecht gehanteerde dringende reden." ... ?
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
Until someone comes up with original English texts (not translations) dealing with dismissal/termination om dringende reden and using the term 'for an urgent cause' instead of 'for (just) cause', I will continue to use the latter, knowing that I am providing the correct translation.
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
"… a so-called urgent reason or just cause …" Introduction to Belgian Law, By H. Bocken, W. de Bondt:

"14. Labour and Social Law

Both parties can terminate a labour contract in periods of suspension of the contract, except where termination restrictions or prohibitions are in force. Upon notice by the employer, the notice period is extended with the duration of the suspension.

Dismissal/resignation for just cause (licenciement/démission pour motif grave, ontslag/ontslagname wegens dringende reden)

The labour contracts law gives each party of the labour contract the right to terminate the agreement unilaterally and instantly in the event of a so-called <font size="2" color="blue">urgent reason or just cause</font>. This kind of termination of the employment agreement is always possible, irrespective of the type of labour contract concluded, either during the trial period, during periods of suspension of the labour contract or during the notice period. As dismissal/resignation for just cause has wide-reaching consequences for the affected party, this is seen as an exceptional type of termination, that can only be invoked when all conditions are fully satisfied." (https://goo.gl/sH2VXh )
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
PS: Please note that I'm not saying that "for (just) cause" is wrong, btw. Just that "urgent" is not as far-fetched as you might think, in correct English. For just cause, for cause, for compelling reasons, for urgent cause, for urgent reasons, etc. – they all basically mean the same thing.
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
BW 7:678 (English): English translation ("The Civil Code of the Netherlands - Second Edition"), on my bookshelf, by Hans C.S. Warendorf, Richard Thomas and Ian Curry-Sumner:

"Article 768

1. For the employer, urgent reasons within the meaning of paragraph 1 of Article 677 are acts, characteristics or conduct of the employee such that the employer cannot reasonably be required to allow the contract of employment to continue.

2. Urgent reasons are deemed to exist, inter alia, if:

(a) the employee has misled the employer on entry into the contract by showing false or forged testimonials or by intentionally giving the employer false information about the way in which his previous contract of employment ended;
(b) […]" (https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=4TRXglDzUfEC&pg=PA883&lp... )

src: http://www.wklawbusiness.com/store/products/civil-code-nethe...
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
BW 7:678 (Dutch version, online): "Artikel 678

1. Voor de werkgever worden als dringende redenen in de zin van lid 1 van artikel 677 beschouwd zodanige daden, eigenschappen of gedragingen van de werknemer, die ten gevolge hebben dat van de werkgever redelijkerwijze niet kan gevergd worden de arbeidsovereenkomst te laten voortduren.
2. Dringende redenen zullen onder andere aanwezig geacht kunnen worden

a. wanneer de werknemer bij het sluiten van de overeenkomst de werkgever heeft misleid door het vertonen van valse of vervalste getuigschriften, of deze opzettelijk valse inlichtingen heeft gegeven omtrent de wijze waarop zijn vorige arbeidsovereenkomst is geëindigd;
b. b. wanneer hij in ernstige mate de bekwaamheid of geschiktheid blijkt te missen tot de arbeid waarvoor hij zich heeft verbonden;
c. wanneer hij zich ondanks waarschuwing overgeeft aan dronkenschap of ander liederlijk gedrag;
d. wanneer hij zich schuldig maakt aan diefstal, verduistering, bedrog of andere misdrijven, waardoor hij het vertrouwen van de werkgever onwaardig wordt;
[…]"

(http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0005290/Boek7/Titel10/Afdeling... )
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
'Dringende reden' implies the severity of the reason for termination/dismissal http://www.wetboek-online.nl/wet/BW7/677.html
So does 'for cause' https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q="for cause"

'An urgent cause' does not - it could mean anything (as is illustrated by the examples provided by Michael Beijer, the majority of which refers to Articles of Government, Policy Documents, etc. of colleges, universities, etc., each of which may have their own interpretation of '(any other good and) urgent cause'. Some even describe what it means in their case.

I don't see any reason why one would want to translate 'om dringende reden' as anything other than 'for (just) cause'. It is perfect English and perfectly suits the Dutch term. All you need to do is read the definitions of 'for cause' and those of 'om dringende reden' - the proof is right there.

My contribution stops here.
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
re: rainy parade https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="urgent cause" termination... (Google search for: "urgent cause" termination site:uk)

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="urgent cause" dismissal s... (Google search for: "urgent cause" dismissal site:uk)
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy #4: As far as your "BTW 1: asker was looking for a translation of 'lastens/ten laste van'." is concerned, that has obviously already been solved, by several people, in several ways.

Incidentally, Aart also consulted Andrew Maycroft (as he often does in such matters), who was born and educated here in the UK, and quite knowledgeable when it comes to legal matters. See e.g. https://translatingdutchlaw.wordpress.com/about-the-author/
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy #3: "Dismissal and Suspension Procedure for Full Time Lecturers
[…]
SUSPENSION
7. The Governing Body or the Principal and Chief Executive, in accordance with the approved Articles of Government for the institution of further education, may, in the event of an emergency or allegation of misconduct or for any other urgent cause, suspend a teacher from duty and, if desired, from attendance at the institution.
(src: BELFAST METROPOLITAN COLLEGE)(https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web... )

etc.
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy #2: "Staniland Primary & Nursery School
Policy Document
[…]
SUSPENSION
In maintained schools both the Headteacher and the governing body have the right to suspend an employee (on full pay) from all duties where in their opinion exclusion from the school is required. This is normally where an act of gross misconduct is either suspected or alleged to have been committed or for “other good and urgent cause” which is normally taken as when the employee is suspected of, or has been arrested for, doing something which would render him or her unsuitable to remain in school." (src: UK school)(https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web... )
Michael Beijer Jan 10, 2016:
@Sindy: Quite a lot of very British refs for "urgent cause" being used in very similar contexts to ours. Far from Dunglish, I'm afraid.

Also, see: Van Dale Groot woordenboek van de Nederlandse taal (14e editie, 2005)
dringend:
1.4 (juridisch) dringende redenen
welke de werkgever of de werknemer het recht geven, zonder opzegging, onmiddellijk aan de dienstbetrekking een einde te maken

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
"Suspension of staff
[…]
Under the Articles of Government the Vice-Chancellor, or in the absence of the Vice-Chancellor, the Deputy Vice-Chancellor, may suspend from duty, with normal pay, any member of staff of the university, other than the holder of a senior post, for alleged misconduct or other good and urgent cause." (src: staffcentral.brighton.ac.uk)(https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web... )
sindy cremer Jan 10, 2016:
I hate to rain on other people's parade, but check the web: 'urgent cause' refers to relief, aid, etc., humanitarian causes and the like that require urgent attention: https://www.google.co.uk/#q="urgent cause"&start=10
Where it refers to the 'dringende reden' concept, in most cases the origin is Dutch.

Now add 'termination' or 'dismissal' to the search: https://www.google.co.uk/#q="urgent cause" termination
https://www.google.co.uk/#q="urgent cause" dismissal
...

I'm not a native speaker of English, but even I can smell a Dunglish translation whenever I see 'urgent cause' used for 'dringende reden'.

BTW 1: asker was looking for a translation of 'lastens/ten laste van'.
BTW 2: Unfortunately Van den End and his JurLex are not always right/correct (sorry Aart).
Kitty Brussaard Jan 8, 2016:
@Michael Thanks for sharing this information, very helpful indeed. In this specific case, I'm also pleased - if not downright proud - to see that I arrived at the same conclusion as the experts :-). And so did you, basically, as this was the first option you provided in your answer. Maybe you should trust your gut instincts more often :-).
Michael Beijer Jan 8, 2016:
quick update (re Aart van den End's opinion) So I sent Aart a query via the (very handy!) facility in the online version of the JurLex (as I always do in such cases), and after consulting with Andrew Maycroft, he said the following:

Beste Michael,

Andrew en ik hebben ons over je vraag gebogen.
Hieronder Andrews antwoord namens ons beiden.

Met vriendelijke groet,

Aart van den End
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Beste Aart,

Ik ben het met Michael wel eens dat de meest effectieve vertaling van :

een dringende reden ten last van de werknemer

inderdaad "an urgent cause attributable to (the fault of) the employee" zou zijn.

In financiële contexten zoals in de onderstaande links naar het Vlaams Woordenboek kunnen de termen ‘lastens’ en ‘ten laste van’ echter ook worden vertaald met:

‘chargeable to’ of ‘payable by’

Groet,

Andrew
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Kitty Brussaard Jan 6, 2016:
PS. België of Nederland? Ook in Nederland kan een arbeidsovereenkomst 'om (een) dringende reden' beëindigd worden:

Artikel 677

1. Ieder der partijen is bevoegd de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen om een dringende reden, onder onverwijlde mededeling van die reden aan de wederpartij.
2. De partij die door opzet of schuld aan de wederpartij een dringende reden heeft gegeven om de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen, is aan de wederpartij een vergoeding verschuldigd, indien de wederpartij van die bevoegdheid gebruik heeft gemaakt.
http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0005290/Boek7/Titel10/Afdeling...

Artikel 7:678 BW voorziet ook in voorbeelden van wat dringende redenen voor een werkgever kunnen zijn om het dienstverband te beëindigen:

Artikel 678

1. Voor de werkgever worden als dringende redenen in de zin van lid 1 van artikel 677 beschouwd zodanige daden, eigenschappen of gedragingen van de werknemer, die ten gevolge hebben dat van de werkgever redelijkerwijze niet kan gevergd worden de arbeidsovereenkomst te laten voortduren.
2. Dringende redenen zullen onder andere aanwezig geacht kunnen worden:
(...)
http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0005290/Boek7/Titel10/
Kitty Brussaard Jan 6, 2016:
@Michael I fully agree with you :-)
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
@Kitty: I agree with you (and Steven Segaert), that it would probably be best to stick the Dutch in brackets here.
Kitty Brussaard Jan 6, 2016:
My tuppence worth I would translate this as follows:

If this employment agreement/contract is terminated by the employer for just cause (possibly also: for an urgent reason) (dringende reden) (within the meaning of the law) attributable to the employee (...), the employee shall refrain from etc.

The 'within the meaning of the law' part is optional as far as I'm concerned, which is why I put it in brackets.
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
@Adrian: I think the "ten laste van = at the behest of" answer @ http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/law_contracts/412... is based on a misunderstanding.

as a verb, "lasten" can also mean "to order", so they interpreted "ten laste van de gebruiker" to mean "ordered by the user" (aka at the behest of). However, as I mentioned in my Discussion entry on said page, I think this is incorrect.
freekfluweel Jan 6, 2016:
termination for just cause by employee http://www.hg.org/article.asp?id=24044
Richard Purdom Jan 6, 2016:
'just cause' doesn't work, what do you do with 'wegens dringende reden ten laste van de werkgever'?
freekfluweel Jan 6, 2016:
ten laste van/lastens kan je weglaten als een werkgever een werknemer op basis van "just cause" ontslaat, slaat dat automatisch op de werknemer...

http://www.carters.ca/pub/bulletin/charity/2009/chylb175.htm
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
@Lotte: "termination of the contract by Employer for just cause attributable to Employee" sounds fine to me
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
yes, Lotte gave that link earlier in which Steven Segaert explains the concept of "ontslag om dringende reden"
Lotte Nouwkens (asker) Jan 6, 2016:
the problem with "for (just) cause" is how to add the notion of "lastens ..." - see my entry below
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
I don't think there is anything wrong with using "urgent reasons", (or perhaps better "urgent cause") here. Both of these are used quite extensively in UK legal language.

see also:

FELOnline:
dringende redenen =
compelling grounds/reasons
[for] urgent cause
[for] urgent reasons

ontslag op grond van een dringende reden =
dismissal on the grounds of an urgent reason

JurLex:
ontslag wegens dringende reden =
dismissal for urgent cause

dringende reden =
urgent cause
pressing reason
urgent reason
------------------------------
"urgent" means: requiring immediate action or attention [Oxforddictionaries.com] hello
freekfluweel Jan 6, 2016:
cannot use 'urgent' here... 'I know urgent is one translation of dringend, but it doesn't work here. Urgent means "because time is short".'
Lotte Nouwkens (asker) Jan 6, 2016:
Thank you, Michael, for your suggestions. I think "attributable to" comes closest, though I would like keep the translation "for cause" for "om dringende reden", which has a specific meaning in Belgian law.
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/human_resources/4...

Yet I'm not sure if I can combine those terms in the following way: "termination of the contract by the Employer for cause attributable to the Employee".
Maybe I'll stick to your suggestion "...for an urgent cause attributable to..." and put "dringende reden" between brackets.
Michael Beijer Jan 6, 2016:
"attributable to"? I think that you could translate it this way:

een dringende reden ten last van de werknemer =
an urgent cause attributable to (the fault of) the employee
or
(termination in the event of) a (material) breach on the part of the employee
or
termination based on (urgent) reasons arising from the employee
---------------------------- *
Literally, I think "lastens/ten last van" means "chargeable to / payable by", but this doesn't make sense here, I think. see e.g.: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/law_general/20068... + http://vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/term/lastens + http://www.vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/term/laste, ten ~...

see also: Van Dale NL/EN:

tot last / ten laste van =
to the account of, at the expense of

Proposed translations

+3
2 hrs
Selected

termination for just cause PRECIPITATED BY/BASED ON THE FAULT OF

cf. Lastens (?) in FR of aux torts et aux griefs de > (a divorce etc.) awarded *against* a party.

Pace Writeaway, I can't work out from the glossaries why the second permutation is supposed to be 'at the behest of'.
Peer comment(s):

agree Michael Beijer : there are indeed many ways to translate "lastens/ten laste van": precipitated by, based on the fault of, attributable to (the fault of), arising from, etc. / PS: see my comment over at the KudoZ question re: 'at the behest of' you linked to
19 mins
Thanks. I don't quite understand the 'at the behest of' answer chosen last ProZ time - it seems to reverse the meaning to a 'volunteering' of the severance.
agree sindy cremer
3 days 19 hrs
Thank you and dank U!
agree Richard Purdom
4 days
Muito obrigado e dank U!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thank you all. I have chosen to leave "dringende reden" between brackets in the translation, to make things as clear as possible."
+1
43 mins

See below for answer:

Three options:

beëindiging […] omwille van een dringende reden lastens / ten laste van de werknemer =

termination in the event of/based on:
(1) an urgent cause attributable to (the fault of) the employee
(2) a (material) breach on the part of the employee
(3) (urgent) reasons arising from the employee

---------------------------- *
Literally, I think "lastens/ten last van" means "chargeable to / payable by", but this doesn't make sense here, I think. see e.g.: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/law_general/20068... + http://vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/term/lastens + http://www.vlaamswoordenboek.be/definities/term/laste, ten ~...

see also: Van Dale NL/EN:

tot last / ten laste van =
to the account of, at the expense of
Peer comment(s):

neutral Wouter van Kampen : attributable to
50 mins
indeed. "lastens/ten laste van" = "attributable to" [in this context].
agree philgoddard : I know "dringend" can mean "urgent", but I don't think it works here. However, I think "material breach on the part of the employee" is good. "By the employee" would be more concise.
3 hrs
"material breach by the employee" is nice too
neutral Richard Purdom : Since you are posing three 'synonymous' answers, I have to say that 'urgent reasons arising from the employee' is perfectly inadequate and poorly worded. As for 'attributable to the fault of the employee', that makes no sense whatsoever.
4 hrs
they both make perfect sense. this isn’t prose. it's legal
agree Kitty Brussaard : With the first option: termination for (an) urgent cause ('dringende reden') attributable to. BE perhaps: (...) for just cause (...). See also my 2nd ref below and f.i. http://tinyurl.com/z23z6d9. I would definitely avoid the second option.
1 day 11 hrs
Yes, I agree. I think the second option isn't great either.
disagree sindy cremer : 'For (just) cause' is the proper native English term.
4 days
you might be right / in fact, of course you are right. you usually are.
Something went wrong...
+2
2 hrs

termination for just cause

in geval werkgever ontslaat werknemer kan je dat "ten laste van" weglaten

in het andere geval:

'beëindigt wegens dringende reden ten laste van de werkgever'

termination for just cause by employee

zie ook d-box
Peer comment(s):

neutral Michael Beijer : I wouldn't drop the "ten laste van" part. it's there in the src. you thus lose distinction "dringende redenen ten last van de werknemer vs werkgever in Kitty's ref. also, don't understand yr answer "termination for just cause by employee".
5 hrs
neutral Kitty Brussaard : From a purely logical perspective yes, from a legal perspective no....
1 day 10 hrs
agree sindy cremer : for Dutch law; the Belgians seem to have a slightly different system which (sometimes?) requires the addition of the 'guilty' party.
4 days
agree writeaway
196 days
Something went wrong...
-2
1 day 8 hrs

cancellation due to compelling reasons at the expense of

opinion
Peer comment(s):

disagree Michael Beijer : translating it as "at the expense of" is based on a misunderstanding of "lastens / ten laste van" in this particular context. see my d.entry @ http://www.proz.com/kudoz/dutch_to_english/law_contracts/412...
4 hrs
disagree sindy cremer : not the proper translation of 'dringende reden' and the wrong translation of 'ten laste van' in this context.
3 days 16 mins
Something went wrong...

Reference comments

7 hrs
Reference:

Dringende redenen ten laste van werknemer/werkgever (Belgian case law)

Voor een uitleg/voorbeelden van hetgeen in dit verband in de Belgische jurisprudentie zoal wordt verstaan onder 'dringende redenen ten laste van de werknemer' en 'dringende redenen ten laste van de werkgever', zie bijvoorbeeld http://tinyurl.com/jg8r8sr.

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Note added at 1 dag11 uren (2016-01-07 23:07:43 GMT)
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Wat de vertaling van 'dringende reden' betreft, here's some food for thought:

Art. 14 van de Regulations 2008 geeft aan dat een contract mag worden verbroken door één van de partijen, zonder dat daaraan gevolgen zijn verbonden, als er sprake is van een ‘just cause’. Een vertaling hiervan in het Nederlands is ‘dringende reden’. Hendrickx vindt dat een ‘gerechtvaardigde reden’ wellicht een betere vertaling zou zijn geweest, omdat de dringende reden in het Nederlandse recht gekoppeld is aan het ontslag op staande voet.
Hierdoor valt de dringende reden onder het ruimere bereik van de gerechtvaardigde reden.
Andersom hoeft er voor een gerechtvaardigde reden niet sprake te zijn van een dringende reden. Anders gezegd: de aanduiding ‘just cause’ in de FIFA- reglementen heeft een groter bereik dan de in het Nederlandse arbeidsrecht gehanteerde dringende reden.
http://arno.uvt.nl/show.cgi?fid=103583

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Note added at 7 days (2016-01-13 23:03:07 GMT) Post-grading
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Wellicht tegen beter weten in en 'for future reference', wil ik toch een pleidooi houden voor 'urgent cause' als (mogelijke) vertaling voor 'dringende reden' (in deze specifieke context).

Zie in dit verband het volgende proefschrift (later ook gepubliceerd in boekvorm):

E.J. van Arkel (Engeline)
A Just Cause for Dismissal in the United States and the Netherlands
Een redelijke grond voor ontslag in Amerika en Nederland
Promotor: prof.mr. C.J. Loonstra (niet de minste, to my knowledge)
http://repub.eur.nl/pub/9080 en http://hdl.handle.net/1765/9080

Wat mij opvalt in deze lijvige en op het oog zeer degelijke wetenschappelijke publicatie - waarin het overigens wemelt van de term 'just cause' (door de auteur opgevat als 'redelijke grond (voor ontslag)' - is het volgende.

In de hoofdstukken die specifiek betrekking hebben op het ontslagrecht in Nederland, hanteert de auteur vrijwel consequent de term '(for) urgent cause' - en in een enkel geval 'urgent reason' - wanneer zij refereert aan opzegging/ontslag om (een) dringende reden (in de zin van BW 7:678).

Ik vind het moeilijk voorstelbaar dat de term 'dringende reden' in een publicatie van dit niveau verkeerd vertaald zou zijn. Het lijkt er meer op dat de auteur hier een bewuste en weloverwogen keuze heeft gemaakt.

Een paar voorbeelden, in willekeurige volgorde (zie Chapter 18.4 'Urgent cause', pp. 246 ff.):

It never has been an issue that an urgent cause constitutes a just cause for dismissal. This Section, nonetheless, examines case law in this respect under Article 7:685 DCC. The reason is to examine whether courts qualify a reason as urgent relatively easily. The reason to examine the foregoing in the context of Article 7:685 DCC, and not in the context of Article 7:677 DCC (summary dismissals), is that Article 7:685 DCC, in particular, is controversial in the debates on just cause protection.
In brief, under Article 7:678 DCC, an urgent cause, i.e. urgent reason for dismissal on the part of the employer may consist of acts, characteristics or behavior of the employee, e.g. theft, battery and/or insult based upon which a reasonable person cannot expect the employer to continue the employment agreement. Also, behavior for which the employee is not to blame, e.g. alcoholism, can constitute an urgent cause. The examples given by the legislature may alter in time.

[Dus: an urgent cause = a just cause, but not necessarily always vice versa (i.e. not every just cause is an urgent cause]

Examples of an urgent cause based upon which the employee can ask the Cantonal Court to dissolve the employment agreement can be found in Art. 7:679 DCC. This Article includes circumstances based on which one reasonably cannot expect the employee to continue the employment agreement, among which the refusal to pay salary in time, battery and/or insult towards the employee.

In unconditional requests, employers ask Cantonal Courts to dissolve the employment agreement based on urgent cause when they doubt whether the
dismissal justifies a summary dismissal under Article 7:677 DCC (1639o old).

Therefore, my proposal would be to abolish the possibility of a summary dismissal under Article 7:677 DCC. Subsequently, under case law, the employer can suspend the employee with continuation of payment of salary, after having notified the employee on the urgent reason for dismissal.

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Note added at 9 dagen (2016-01-15 13:47:34 GMT) Post-grading
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For future reference, wil ik toch nog de aandacht vestigen op de volgende inhoudelijke verschillen die er m.i. voor pleiten om 'termination for just cause' niet zonder meer 1-op-1 gelijk te stellen aan 'beëindiging om een dringende reden'.

Bij keuze voor '(termination for) just cause' zou ik in alle gevallen de NL term '(beëindiging om een) dringende reden' tussen haakjes toevoegen (of vice versa), zeker bij de eerste vermelding.

Usually, “just cause” is a provision in an employment contract. It differentiates the basis for a termination from that of a reduction in force or simple exertion of at-will employment rights by requiring a reason for a termination. In a pure at-will employment situation, employers do not have to provide a reason for termination unless there is a request made by statute. In an employment contract with a just cause provision, the employer articulates the basis for the cause in order to terminate the contract without notice, and/or provide different, or reduced or no severance benefits.
http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=1c2e14f1-4066-...

Verschil 1: ‘beëindiging om een dringende reden’ is in alle gevallen een wettelijk verankerd begrip (in zowel Nederland als België), terwijl ‘just cause termination’ ook kan verwijzen naar een bepaling in een arbeidsovereenkomst (uitsluitend ten gunste van de werkgever, zie verschil 2)

Verschil 2: there is no such thing as ‘just cause termination by employee’, maar in zowel België als Nederland is dit wel een mogelijkheid waarin de wet heeft voorzien (België: ‘beëindiging om dringende reden lastens werkgever’).

Zie voor Nederland Burgerlijk Wetboek Boek 7, artikel 677:

Artikel 677
• 1. Ieder der partijen is bevoegd de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen om een dringende reden, onder onverwijlde mededeling van die reden aan de wederpartij.
• 2. De partij die door opzet of schuld aan de wederpartij een dringende reden heeft gegeven om de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen, is aan de wederpartij een vergoeding verschuldigd, indien de wederpartij van die bevoegdheid gebruik heeft gemaakt.
http://wetten.overheid.nl/BWBR0005290/Boek7/Titel10/Afdeling...

Verschil 3: terminate an employment contract for just cause = terminate the contract without notice, and/or provide different, or reduced or no severance benefits.
Ook hierin wijkt ‘just cause termination’ af van ‘beëindiging om een dringende reden’.

• Bij beëindiging om een dringende reden (niet te verwarren met het (laten) 'ontbinden' van de arbeidsovereenkomst om een dringende reden) is er altijd sprake van ‘without notice’ (onverwijld opzeggen).
• Bovendien is de partij die de andere partij (wederpartij) een dringende reden geeft om de arbeidsovereenkomst te beëindigen, een vergoeding – niet te verwarren met een ontslagvergoeding (severance pay) – verschuldigd aan die andere partij (als deze ervoor kiest van dit recht gebruik te maken).

Zie opnieuw BW 7:677:

Artikel 677
• 1. Ieder der partijen is bevoegd de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen om een dringende reden, onder onverwijlde mededeling van die reden aan de wederpartij.
• 2. De partij die door opzet of schuld aan de wederpartij een dringende reden heeft gegeven om de arbeidsovereenkomst onverwijld op te zeggen, is aan de wederpartij een vergoeding verschuldigd, indien de wederpartij van die bevoegdheid gebruik heeft gemaakt.

Verder nog de volgende kanttekening voor wat betreft 'lastens / ten laste van' in deze specifieke context. Als de werknemer een dringende reden geeft om de arbeidsovereenkomst te beëindigen, dan hoeft daarbij niet per se sprake te zijn van een 'fout' (verwijtbaarheid).

Zie bijvoorbeeld:

De vraag of er sprake is van een dringende reden is niet alleen van belang in geval van ontslag op staande voet, maar ook als er ontbinding van de arbeidsovereenkomst wordt gevraagd (3.5.). Bij de behandeling geldt als uitgangspunt dat de werkgever de medewerker ontslaat of om ontbinding verzoekt.

De kernvraag is daardoor:
Zijn de gedragingen of eigenschappen van de medewerker zodanig, dat in redelijkheid niet van de werkgever verlangd kan worden dat hij de arbeidsovereenkomst laat voortduren? (art 7:678-1 BW)

Omstandigheden van het geval

Het antwoord op de vraag of er sprake is van een dringende reden hangt natuurlijk sterk af van de omstandigheden van het geval. Onderstaande dient om hier meer zicht op te krijgen. Vervolgens worden bepaalde voorbeelden uitgewerkt.

Gedragingen en eigenschappen van de medewerker

Het moet gaan om daden, gedragingen en eigenschappen van de medewerker. De medewerker zal vaak verwijtbaar hebben gehandeld, hoewel dit niet altijd vereist is. Bij de gedragingen kan het ook gaan om gedragingen terwijl de medewerker niet aan het werk is (vrije dag, vakantie, ziekte etc) of nog niet met zijn werk is begonnen.
http://www.arbeidsrechter.nl/wwz-dringende-reden-voor-ontsla...

Vanuit deze optiek is 'at the fault of' in deze context een te specifieke vertaling van 'lastens / ten laste van'. Voor het neutralere '(for) just cause precipitated by' dan wel '(for) urgent cause/reason precipitated by' zijn in het geheel geen hits te vinden.
Note from asker:
Bedankt, Kitty, voor deze uitgebreide informatie!
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Michael Beijer : nice and clear!
13 mins
Thank you, Michael. I thought it would be helpful and settle once and for all what 'ten laste van' means in this context.
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