Charles Davis Oct 14, 2015:

I know what you mean about comments from people about questions that have been asked before. I sometimes agree with them, when it's obvious that there is a straightforward answer that's in the glossary and the asker hasn't even bothered to check, but more often I find such comments rude and impertinent and best ignored. I have little patience with high-and-mighty posters who feel entitled to police the forum. In any case, such comments are against site rules:

"Commentary on askers or answerers, and their postings or decisions to post, is not allowed. Comments or insinuations concerning an answerer's or asker's experience or profile, his/her decision to post a certain question or answer, grade or close a question in a certain way, make a certain glossary entry, etc., are strictly prohibited (whether posted publicly, made directly to the person in question, or made to another site user)."
http://www.proz.com/siterules/kudoz_answ/3.5#3.5

Laura Molinari (asker) Oct 14, 2015:

I'm sorry for closing the question and closing the debate so quickly, but some Proz-ers seem to get annoyed when a question has been answered many times before and someone asks it again. So I thought it prudent to close before getting bombarded with comments about this already having been asked... Can't win! It seems though that I can "Un-close" the question. I will do that. However, I hesitate to be the one to put something in the glossary as there are far too many possible ways to explain this term. And that's really what we get, an explanation of what this concept means (and thanks to Charles and Adrian for explaining that) and not so much a translation. At least not for practical purposes. In the notarial documents where this term tends to appear, I feel that it is sufficient to say that the Notary is registered in the city of XXX. This is what I ended up using in my case. I don't know if I want to be the one to commit that to the glossary though...

Charles Davis Oct 14, 2015:

For once I knocked off early and went to bed, so I missed this.

Thanks to Taña for approving my suggestion. Frankly I don't mind very much how it's expressed in English as long as it's accurate. My main concern, and the reason why I took the time to comment on a closed question, was that on looking at previous answers to questions on this term I couldn't find one that I thought was right, and I thought it would be helpful to clarify what "número" refers to, since this expression comes up from time to time.

I did notice Adrian's previous answer ("notary with the number assigned in sequence"), which is not quite right, in my opinion, since no number was assigned in sequence; the authorities simply dictated how many notarías there were to be (and still do so where this system operates). The answer he has now proposed seems to me accurate. It's not how I would prefer to express it, but that's a personal view. I think my own somewhat shorter suggestion, or something like it, would be acceptable too, and I think the word "incumbent" would be appropriate, despite the specific associations Adrian has mentioned.

Taña Dalglish Oct 13, 2015:

@ Adrian Perhaps, Adrian, but I am speaking from the layman's point of view. I understand what you are saying, and I did not suggest that you enter the term in the glossary, because you can't! I think only the Asker (or a moderator can). I also understand you may not like "incumbents" as it doesn't jive with you, but my thinking was that Charles and yourself could arrive at a consensus regarding the appropriate wording. That's all! I merely thought that it would be important to add to the glossary as there are so many other entries which are not quite accurate. Perhaps, I was not clear in my initial posting. Where is Charles when you need him? Regards.

Adrian MM. (X) Oct 13, 2015:

@ T. Dalglish I agree with your points, except the over-complicated (I am a member of a numbered Circuit myself and that includes Commissioners for Oaths - with functions vaguely similar to Notaries). But it is not for me to make any glossary entry. And this enagement with 'incumbents' does not chime with my own inhouse City of London notarial experience., except when referring to the incumbent of the office of the Archbishop of Canterbury who is the historical source of authority for Scrivener (Church 'scribe')/Notarial qualification in England & Wales. Set reading: Brooke's Notary, Sweet & Maxwell.

Taña Dalglish Oct 13, 2015:

@ Adrian /Charles Adrian: I don't understand what you mean about "re-opened" the question (or the discussion, as the case may be). Only the Asker can re-open (I assume with the help of a moderator, as far as I know). It is a pity that the question was closed as the glossary could benefit from a definitive answer as suggested by Charles (and to correct all the other entries which IMO are incorrect - I don´t know the procedure to accomplish this). Adrian, I don't mean to be harsh or disrespectful in any way, but your wording seems overly complicated, but I am no expert, or lawyer! Why not just go with what Charles suggested, which IMO is far more readable and to the point? I think the thing to do for the sake of the glossary is to contact the Asker personally, or a moderator seeking guidance on the way forward, i.e. to enter into the glossary, once and for all. Thoughts? Regards, and sorry, if I am being harsh.

Charles Davis Oct 13, 2015:

Continued I would suggest that an accurate rendering would be "incumbent of one of the official notary offices of [name of district]".

Another possibility that nobody has mentioned, I think, is "numerary". I think this would be a good idea. It is used by Kathryn Burns in her book Into the Archive: Writing and Power in Colonial Peru (2010):
https://books.google.es/books?id=i_awc_i49oMC&pg=PA206&lpg=P...

"Numerary", meaning "of the number", is quite often used to refer to "numerary members" of Spanish learned academies. In English it is unusual, but strictly it can be applied to a numerary canon of a cathedral chapter (as opposed to a supernumerary canon), which is an analogous case; see Webster's 1913 dictionary, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerary

Charles Davis Oct 13, 2015:

Continued It is rather like the full members of one of the learned academies, such as the Real Academia Española, which have "académicos del número" (or "de número"). This is because there is a limited number of places, and there can only be a new member when one of them falls vacant.

"LAS del Número", in your document, is not necessarily a typo; it probably means "de las [notarías] del número", since actually it was the notary offices, rather than the notaries themselves, that were limited to a prescribed number; it was possible for there to be more than one notary working in a notaría del número, though only one was the official incumbent, the notario del número.

Of the previous answers Taña has cited, those that come closest to being accurate are probably "included in the official list" or "registered" (I agreed with the latter, I notice). Yet neither quite captures the point. Either of these could mean that the notary is licensed to practise, but that's not the meaning. Other answerers simply ignore the term or mistranslate it. "Of those acting in and for", for example, is quite wrong. A "notario del número" doesn't act for the district.

(Continued in next post)

Charles Davis Oct 13, 2015:

@lcmolinari I can well understand why you've closed the question, but I'd like to add a comment since I don't think any of the previous answers have accurately expressed what this means.

This use of "del número" in the Dominican Republic used to be standard all over the Spanish-speaking world. It's derived from notarial practice in Spain in the Early Modern period (from about 1500). I used to do a lot of research in Spanish notarial archives and saw "escribano del número" or "escribano de los del número" all the time.

It refers to the fact that in each municipality or notarial district there was a prescribed and strictly limited number of notarías (notary offices). An escribano (later called notario) del número was a qualified notary who had acquired one of these positions, by buying or inheriting it, in practice. From time to time the authorities might change the number, but it was regulated. You couldn't just open a new notary office and start practising. The notarías weren't literally numbered, but there was a set number of them.

(Continued in next post)