May 29, 2015 16:17
8 yrs ago
Spanish term

vos reverencial o arcáico

Non-PRO Spanish to English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
Hello all, I have begun a personal project of translating some Spanish novels from the late 18th century and the early 19th century. Many, but not all, have a medieval setting; however, even those which do not have such a setting often use still use the reverential or archaic "vos" with the conjugations for "vosotros," despite speaking to only one person. This usage also seems to be without any clear class distinctions (which you will see are very important in a moment). I know that other posts have been made about this linguistic feature, but none have addressed the concerns I have below.

As you can guess, I have found this to be a great challenge in this work. My first reaction was to use the archaic English "thou." However, despite the fact that Biblical language has made us think of "thou" as full of deference on account of it being used to address God, it was actually the informal pronoun, and English writers of similarly medieval-themed novels from the above mentioned periods (when "thou" had fallen out of everyday use among all except people in very remote English and Scottish villages, as well as Quakers) seemed to have nevertheless been aware of this and used "thou/thee" and "ye/you" accordingly, i.e., if I recall correctly, a servant would never call his master "thou" (very disrespectful and insolent in that time) in such a work, nor would a knight call a peasant "ye."

Thus, my second reaction is to translate "vos" as "thee/thou" when a social superior is addressing an inferior, and to translate "vos" to "ye/you" when the social hierarchy relationship is reversed, as that would retain the archaism inherent in vos while largely putting it in line with the prevailing usage in medieval-themed English novels written at the same time mentioned above. However, this also makes me think that maybe I am adding something that is not there, since the reverential/archaic "vos" form does not seem to be restricted to talking to someone either above or below the speaker's station. For example, in one such novel, a traveling knight has a long conversation with a local villager and they both call each other "vos."

So, with regard to my commentary, which is the better option? Remember that my approach is to try to balance 1) making such novels read like comparable English novels of the same period and 2) being true to the text. Also, if there is a third option, I would be more than happy to hear about it. Thank you so much for your time!
Proposed translations (English)
4 +1 you or an honorific
Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (1): Billh

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Discussion

JoshuaV-M (asker) May 29, 2015:
Well... Having done a cursory check of some late 18th/early 19th century English novels set in the Middle Ages or Early Modern Period, it turns out that, regardless of class, "you" is generally used anyway. It seems that archaic pronouns are only really used in passages with a certain elevated or poetic tone or when a character is overtaken by very strong emotions. Another place where I see them is when a character is particularly pompous, villainous, mysterious, or supernatural. That helps me to lean more toward excising most archaic 2nd person pronouns, though I might still use them in the limited contexts above.
JoshuaV-M (asker) May 29, 2015:
Also... I think it is interesting to note that sometimes, characters will go from "vos" to "tú" once it seems they know and trust each other better. However, they will also use "vos" again in moments of enthusiasm, surprise, or general grandeur.
JoshuaV-M (asker) May 29, 2015:
Hello Simon Thanks for your ideas. I am still not sure precisely what approach I will take, but whichever one I choose, it is always gratifying to read other opinions on something that I have stirred around in my head for a long time without any input from others.
Billh May 29, 2015:
Vos I hear in Spain sometimes but only from older people.

I suspect Charles Davis is the man to answer this one.......
Simon Bruni May 29, 2015:
Hi Joshua This being a literary project it's really up to you, but personally I'd find no compelling reason to translate 'vos' with anything but 'you', and likewise I wouldn't be drawn into trying to emulate English novels of the time. I can't see the benefit of that. But of course, it may just be what you personally wish to do, because you find it interesting or believe it might enhance the translation in some way, and you're perfectly entitled to make that choice!

However, if you ask me, the danger with using words like 'thou' / 'thee' etc. is that the English will end up sounding mock-medieval, which tends to have a comical effect. Instead you could fold some more subtle archaic usages into the translation in other places in order to make up for the absence of an archaic equivalent for "vos".

Proposed translations

+1
15 mins
Selected

you or an honorific

Creo que lo tienes al revés. Thou es la forma informal para hablar entre amigos o a inferiores. You era la version formal.
As quoted in Wiki:

QUEEN GERTRUDE: Hamlet, thou hast thy father much offended.. (Mother to son)

HAMLET: Mother, you have my father much offended. (son to mother, supposedly with respect, but in fact with bitter sarcasm)
Note from asker:
I don't have it reversed, I noted exactly what you said above, and that people often mistakenly believe that "thou" was formal due to its religious associations.
That said, I would be more than happy to read your opinion on the issues of translating this form that I have tried to outline.
Peer comment(s):

agree philgoddard : I'm not sure what you mean by an honorofic, but I'd definitely go with "you", to make it easy to read.
29 mins
your honour, your excellency, your highness, my lord, doctor, or whatever might be called for
Something went wrong...
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Thanks for your comments!"
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