Glossary entry

French term or phrase:

effet relatif

English translation:

(land conveyancing:) root, abstract or epitome of title; (contract) privity

Added to glossary by joannaadamczyk
Mar 26, 2015 09:56
9 yrs ago
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French term

effet relatif

French to English Law/Patents Law (general) succession - inheritance
Hello,

in a notarial deed of a "Titre de propriété", there's the description of the deceased owners of a number of immovable properties, then the ascertainment of the heirs and then a detailed description of the properties. For each property, there's a heading "désignation" (with the address, number in the cadastre, and surface area provided), then the "évaluation" section providing the value for tax purposes and then a section titled "effet relatif" providing details of a notarial deed certifying the ownership title. All of them read like this:

"Attesttation de propriété suivant acte reçu par Maître XY, notaire à Nice, le (date), dont une copie authentique a été publiée au service foncière de Grasse, le (date), volume... numéro..."

Could anyone help me translate the "effet relatif" in this context? As "relative effect" seems strange as a title of a section providing details of a document...

Thank you very much in advance.

Discussion

Adrian MM. (X) Mar 27, 2015:
@ Tim W: Registration of a previous conveyance is part of a good root ot title anyway.
joannaadamczyk (asker) Mar 27, 2015:
Fantastic! Thank you very much. So finally we arrive at a solution. But the discussion was extremely fruitful and useful for me. Thanks for devoting so much time and attention to my problem :)
Tim Webb Mar 27, 2015:
I would just paraphrase with something like "Registration of previous conveyance".
joannaadamczyk (asker) Mar 27, 2015:
Or maybe I do see another solution: if the "effet relatif" provides details of title of the current owner (i.e. the deceased individual whose children are going to inherit) so maybe "proof of title" would be the right translation. What do you say? I know it does not render the idea of enforceability toward third parties but at least it gives some idea about what is going to be said and leaves "root of title" as a translation of "Origine de propriété". Would you agree?
joannaadamczyk (asker) Mar 27, 2015:
Very good point :) I did get to "Origine de propriété" and "Origine de propriété antérieure", indeed, and it does look like duplication but still, I don't see any other solution how to better translate it... Anyway, have a good day!
Tim Webb Mar 27, 2015:
Ok Joanna! You may find some duplication when you get to Part 2, "Origine de propriété" and "Origine de propriété antérieure" ... but that's probably enough splitting hairs!!
joannaadamczyk (asker) Mar 27, 2015:
Tim Webb, thank you very much for this contribution again, the longer the discussion, the more I learn :) Based on the last article I understand that "effet" really refers to the "effect" or "effectiveness" a given document/transaction has with respect to third parties. However, in my very context, the translation "root of title" fits best, as the text that is provided under the heading "effet relatif" actually provides details of previous transactions proving the title of the current owner... Anyway, this has been a marvellous lesson! Thanks so much!
Tim Webb Mar 27, 2015:
AllegroTrans I'm not convinced that the "effet" is the deed establishing good title.

See:http://www.cravatedenotaire.com/les-grands-principes-de-la-p...
"La publicité foncière n’est requise que pour l’opposabilité des droits (et non pour la validité). En matière de vente immobilière le principe de consensualisme, l’acte est parfait dès l’échange des consentements sans qu’il soit besoin d’accomplir des formalités particulières. Donc l’acte de vente peut être établi par acte sous seing privé. L’authenticité de l’acte n’est pas requise pour sa validité mais uniquement pour assurer sa publication au fichier immobilier et donc son opposabilité aux tiers.

It really is a case of "effect" with regard to third parties.
joannaadamczyk (asker) Mar 27, 2015:
AllegroTrans, you must be a genius! Where did you get that knowledge from? None of the dictionaries I consulted (CNRTL, TFL, Larousse, Petit Robert...) provides this meaning... but it's exactly this! It's so good to understand why a certain thing is so strangely called... :) thank you so much! And I'll continue posting my questions here, in spite of being discouraged by Writeaway, as I haven't found any such knowledgeable answerer in the Polish forum as I have here. I mean also Adrian MM. and Tim Webb... Thank you very much to all of you!
AllegroTrans Mar 27, 2015:
Explanation the "effet" here is the deed or instrument establishing good title to the property
writeaway Mar 26, 2015:
Same suggestion Find a reliable Fr-Pol translation and see what the Polish has as guide for formulating the English.

Proposed translations

+3
6 hrs
Selected

(land conveyancing:) root, abstract or epitome of title; (contract) privity

rarely does it have FHS Bridge's FR/EN glossary meaning of privity of contract vs. privity of estate (e.g. landlord and subtenant).

A good toot of title in UK unregd. conveyancing is 1. a doc or deed at least 15 years old 2. showing an unbroken chain of ownership and 3. containing nothing to cast doubt on the pedigree.

Regd. conveyancing: the title is state-guaranteed.

Could be that FR/PO law dictionaries go into this detail: nievem.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2015-03-26 16:23:20 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

toot = root of title
Example sentence:

Deducing title to unregistered land—compulsory first registration, party to register, evidence of title, good root of title and unbroken chain of ownership.

Note from asker:
Many, many thanks once more, Adrian MM.!
And as for FR/POL dictionaries, no, none of those that I have consulted (I mean with legal terminology) provide this meaning. They limit the explanation of "effet" to the most common usages (e.g. "effet de commerce" etc.) That is why this forum is so precious to me :)
Peer comment(s):

agree AllegroTrans : "root of title" in asker's context; I have translated numerous deeds/leases containing this heading and what follows is invariably a short description of a specific transaction (deed) establishing the beginning of a line of title to the property concerned
8 hrs
Yes, indeed. Root of title.
agree Peter Shortall : Thanks, "root of title" seems to work well (I had to translate this today - it's a section of a contract that identifies documents proving previous sales of the property and how the vendor came to own it)
214 days
Glad to be of assistance - predicated on 40 years of UK conveyancing practice.
agree Lisa Reutenauer : thank you for this Chris! Exactly what I needed
3060 days
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "thank you very much"
16 mins

Partial effect

Based on my understanding.
Note from asker:
Why do you think it should be partial?
Peer comment(s):

neutral writeaway : partial? please explain.
8 mins
neutral AllegroTrans : partial effect of what exactly?; this is a legal term, you cannot simply translate word-by-word
14 hrs
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2 hrs
French term (edited): effet relatif

Opposability of previous owner's title

The sale can only have an effect with regard to third parties (effet relatif) if the transfer of title is recorded at the land registry.

http://www.partenaire-europeen.fr/Actualites-Conseils/Juridi...
Note from asker:
My God, thank you so much for the explanation! Eureka! :) Though, now that I understand the meaning, I wouldn't translate it as "opposability"; I think something along the lines of "enforceability among third parties" would be more understandable in the Anglo-Saxon world... maybe a native speaker could confirm...
Peer comment(s):

neutral AllegroTrans : if one looks at docs. containing this heading (I have translated many) what follows is invariably a short description of a specific transaction establishing the beginning of a line of title to property
13 hrs
Not the beginning of the line of title - the end of it, i.e. the last conveyance before this one. The seller may well have "clean" title, but unless/until recorded at the land registry, it will not be opposable on third parties, hence this paragraph
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Reference comments

15 hrs
Reference:

Explanation

Dans l’acte de vente, la mention « effet relatif » est fréquemment utilisée.
Me Christophe Buffet, Avocat spécialiste en droit immobilier et en droit public revient sur la définition de ce terme spécifique.
L'effet relatif, qu'est-ce que c'est?

Il vous est peut-être arrivé de lire un acte de vente d'un bien immobilier et de relever la mention énigmatique « Effet Relatif » et de vous demander de quoi il s'agit.

Il est vrai que ces deux mots sont bien peu l’expression de ce qu’ils recouvrent et que l’on peut regretter que les actes notariés ne soient pas plus explicites à ce sujet.

Cette mention correspond à une obligation requise en matière de publicité foncière. La publicité foncière a pour objet, notamment, de rendre opposable aux tiers l'acte de vente immobilière. Il s’agit de ce que l’on appelle la publication au bureau des hypothèques.

Les règles de la publicité foncière sont prévues par un décret de 1955.

L'article 3 de ce décret prévoit ceci : "Aucun acte ou décision judiciaire sujet à publicité dans un bureau des hypothèques ne peut être publié au fichier immobilier si le titre du disposant ou dernier titulaire n'a pas été préalablement publié, conformément aux dispositions du présent décret."

Cela signifie que lorsqu'un acte de vente est publié, sa publication n'est possible et recevable par le bureau des hypothèques que si l'acte par lequel le précédent propriétaire est devenu propriétaire a lui-même été publié préalablement.

L'intérêt est de permettre de suivre la chaîne des transmissions successives du bien, sans rupture de la continuité, puisque les publications successives mentionnent les différents actes à la transmission de la propriété du bien.

Il s'agit ainsi de permettre la preuve de la propriété par référence aux actes des propriétaires successifs et c'est donc une garantie du propriétaire actuel de pouvoir prouver sa propre propriété.

En pratique, il est fait, sous cet article de l'acte de vente, référence aux mentions de publication de l'acte de vente antérieure qui permette de le retrouver au bureau des hypothèques compétent.

Christophe Buffet est Avocat spécialiste en droit immobilier et en droit public depuis 20 ans. Il est le rédacteur de BDIDU, le blog de droit immobilier et droit de l'urbanisme, qui décrit quotidiennement l'actualité juridique et judiciaire du droit immobilier et du droit de l'urbanisme et d'un site exclusivement consacré aux aspects juridiques de la commission des agents immobiliers.
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