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grammar confusion

Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Unternehmer seiner Selbst

English translation:

individual as entrepreneur of the self

Added to glossary by Ramey Rieger (X)
Feb 13, 2015 14:12
9 yrs ago
German term

Unternehmer seiner Selbst

German to English Art/Literary Philosophy Theater performance
I love this term! And I'm frazzled, I would really appreciate a term that captures all the wonderful depth and simplicity of this term

Die neoliberale Wende setzt in den 1970er Jahren ein und lässt den Geldmarkt zum Souverän der Ökonomie werden. Ab jetzt wird aus Geld mehr Geld gezaubert. Der alte Industrie-Kapitalismus erfindet sich neu, in dem er unmerklich, die allmächtige Figur des großen Gläubigers (Finanzmarkt - Finanzkrise - Schuldenkrise) generiert. Damit werden wir alle – der zum Unternehmer seiner Selbst gewordene Mensch, genau wie die arbeitende Arme – in Schuldner verwandelt. Unser Fleisch, unserer Leben, unsere Zukunft und unser Trieb zur Gemeinschaft wird zum Rohstoff der neuen Schulden-Ökonomie.

My translation:

The neoliberal transition began in the 70s and crowned the money market Sovereign of Economy. Money magically generated more money. Fading industrial capitalism reinvented itself by subtly generating the omnipotent Great Creditor (finance market - finance crisis – debt crisis). Thus, we all - the emergent company of myself/marketing me man as well as the working class poor - became debtors. Our flesh, our lives, our future and our yearning for community became the raw materials for the new Economy of Debt.
Proposed translations (English)
3 +2 individual as entrepreneur of the self
4 +1 selling ourselves to the highest bidder
4 +1 soul-seller
3 self-made entrepreneur
3 in the business of self-promoting
3 entrepeneurs of their own (fortune)
2 +1 entrepreneur on his own behalf

Discussion

Erik Freitag Feb 20, 2015:
seiner selbst Vielleicht hilft Dir der Grammatikduden weiter (Artikel 582 und 600)?

Kurz zusammengefasst: "seiner" ist das Personalpronomen der 3. Pers., Singular, m./n., während "selbst" ein rückweisendes Demonstrativpronomen ist. Eine ungrammatikalische, aber vielleicht leichter verständliche Formulierung für "seiner selbst" wäre "von sich selbst".

So wird auch deutlich, warum der deutsche Ausgangssatz hier wirklich falsch ist (entweder hinsichtlich der Rechtschreibung, oder hinsichtlich der Grammatik).

Der in der englischen Sprache gelegentlich vorzufindende Versuch, einem Wort durch Großschreibung eine besondere Bedeutung zu verleihen, funktioniert eben im Deutschen nicht. Da muss man sich was anderes überlegen.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 20, 2015:
Decide yourSelf, dear Orla Since the concept of a capitalized Self is a result of New Age spiritual thinking, feeling and acting it's tough finding references. I do not believe this is a grammatical issue, really. I understand the Self in therapeutic, political and spiritual texts to actually mean the soul, which is very much out of fashion. Another option that I use from time to time when appropriate is 'being' or even inherent/essential/quintessential being. what I LIKE about Self is it is the language's attempt to integrate an idea of connectivity to a greater being in one word. Self is beyond body, mind and emotion, but encompasses all three plus our 'higher' Self, or the divine. Hope this helps.
oa_xxx (X) Feb 20, 2015:
I know this question is closed and I should probably ask this elsewhere but - does anyone have any tips about where I could find more info about expressions with "seiner selbst" where selbst is not capitalised? (Annahme seiner selbst; Das Kind konstruiert sich sozusagen “als Baumeister seiner selbst”; Der Mensch als „Werk seiner selbst“ etc.) I'm now completely confused about when you'd use das Selbst/des Selbst and why 'seiner selbst' is used in these expressions...is it like 'architect of him-/herself' versus 'architect of the self (Self)'? 'Sie beruht auf dem Bild des Kindes als „Baumeister seines Selbst“' also appears so whats the difference between this and the version with seiner selbst above?! Not expecting a detailed answer but if you know of a site that could help would be much appreciated! Need to brush up on my grammar methinks...
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 14, 2015:
The final take The neoliberal transition emerged in the 70s, causing the money market to rule over the economy. Money magically generates more money. Aging industrial capitalism reinvented itself by subtly generating the omnipotent personage, the Great Creditor (finance market - finance crisis – debt crisis). Thus, we all - the individual as entrepreneur of his Self, just as well as the working class poor - become debtors. Our flesh, our lives, our future and our yearning for community become the raw materials for the new Economy of Debt.
Ramey Rieger (X) (asker) Feb 13, 2015:
Hi Phil thank you for your feedback! Sovereign of Economy is a title, like King of Pain, but you're right, I could be less subtle. The character, the Great Creditor, is an important part of the author's text, no choice on that one. Sleep well!
philgoddard Feb 13, 2015:
Ramey A couple of comments:

I don't think "crowned the money market sovereign of economy" makes sense. This is partly because you've left out the definite article before "economy", but you could express it more clearly by saying something like "making the money markets the dominant force in the economy."

Also, "generating the omnipotent great creditor" is not clear. I think the idea is basically "reinvented itself by becoming the great universal creditor", or even simply "loaned out money left, right and centre."

And you don't need all those initial capitals either.

Hope this helps!

Proposed translations

+2
27 mins
Selected

individual as entrepreneur of the self

Note from asker:
Thank you Seehand! As an English native speaker, I'm still scouting for a solution that reflects the 'Selbst', capitalized. Perhaps I can simply capitalize Self, but it's still not quite as profound as the German.
Peer comment(s):
agree TonyTK : Yes, this sounds suitably vague.
58 mins
Merci ...
agree Helen Shiner : Think this is an exact equivalent of the German - self is Selbst and is frequently used in this way in academic texts.
2 hrs
Merci ...
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "This has been a highly challenging and enlightening text. I couldn't have done it without you (or at least not NEARLY so elegantly!) Thank you!"
11 mins

self-made entrepreneur

Note from asker:
Thank you Lancashireman!
Peer comment(s):
neutral heidi (X) : It's ' der zum Unternehmer seiner Selbst gewordene Mensch' and not 'selbstgemachter Unternehmer'.
15 hrs
See comment by Erik Freitag: "Either way, the German sentence is incorrect." http://www.duden.de/suchen/dudenonline/selbst Substantiv, Neutrum // I'm curious: Why did you think 'soul-seller' was the bingo translation here?
Something went wrong...
39 mins

in the business of self-promoting

My take on this
Note from asker:
Many thanks Donald!
Something went wrong...
1 hr

entrepeneurs of their own (fortune)

or "entrepeneurs of their own lives/destiny..."
Note from asker:
Thank you, Michael!
Something went wrong...
+1
11 mins

entrepreneur on his own behalf

First of all, the source is misspelt, should be "selbst".

That aside, I'm not sure why the literal translation "entrepreneur on his own behalf" shouldn't work, but I'm not working into English, so this is just an idea to get things rolling.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 Min. (2015-02-13 14:28:41 GMT)
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I see! It didn't occur to me that this underlying note isn't conveyed by "own behalf".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 Min. (2015-02-13 14:32:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Would "in his own cause" change that? Sorry if I'm really just guessing here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2015-02-13 15:23:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If "Selbst" is intentionally capitalized, we do indeed lose a misspelling, but at the cost of wrong grammar: In this case, it must be "seines Selbst".

Either way, the German sentence is incorrect.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 Stunde (2015-02-13 15:38:53 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Quite possibly. Didn't you just recently argue against conveniently creating language? If the source text does, why shouldn't you?

Anyway, I really rather suspect ignorance than artistic licence in this case.

Of course, all this doesn't really help with your question - sorry for that, just felt like pointing it out, if only because looking at "seiner Selbst" is the visual equivalent to scraping fingernails on a chalkboard.

Note from asker:
Hi Erik and thank you! Your suggestion is good, but what I'm missing the concept of selling yourSelf, which is implied.
The Selbst is intentionally capitalized, as you've deduced. There are such things are brilliant guesses!
Poetic/artistic license, I suppose!
OUCH!
Peer comment(s):
agree Anne Schulz : Agree with your comments (and wonder whether profuse spreading of commas is artistic license as well ;-))
16 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
5 hrs

selling ourselves to the highest bidder

I don't think "entrepreneur of the self" conveys a clear meaning - you have to stop reading and work out what it means.
Note from asker:
Thank you Phil!
Peer comment(s):
agree Anne Schulz : "Self-selling entrepreneur", or "the entrepreneur with a capitalized Self"? (sorry, couldn't resist!)
11 hrs
Something went wrong...
+1
13 hrs

soul-seller

I think this covers it
Peer comment(s):
agree heidi (X) : Bingo!
2 hrs
Something went wrong...
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