Glossary entry (derived from question below)
English term or phrase:
time-mean-square
French translation:
moyenne temporelle du carré (de la pression acoustique)
Added to glossary by
Jennifer Levey
Feb 10, 2015 18:18
9 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term
time-mean-square
English to French
Tech/Engineering
Electronics / Elect Eng
contexte
sound pressure level
ten times the logarithm to the base 10 of the ratio of the time-mean-square of a sound pressure signal to the square of the reference value
merci
sound pressure level
ten times the logarithm to the base 10 of the ratio of the time-mean-square of a sound pressure signal to the square of the reference value
merci
Change log
Feb 17, 2015 12:31: Jennifer Levey Created KOG entry
Proposed translations
+2
3 hrs
Selected
moyenne temporelle du carré (de la pression acoustique)
The ST is simply stating the standard definition of sound pressure level (SPL):
Avant-propos - ISO
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#!iso:std:iso:1680:ed-2...Transla... this page
dix fois le logarithme décimal du rapport de la moyenne temporelle du carré de la pression acoustique, p, sur un intervalle de temps donné, T (commençant à t1 ...
Avant-propos - ISO
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#!iso:std:iso:20906:ed...Translat... this page
L'ISO 20906 a été élaborée par le comité technique ISO/TC 43, Acoustique, .... du rapport de la moyenne temporelle du carré de la pression acoustique, p, sur ...
802-01-08 - Electropedia
www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?...ievref...Transl... this page
... la pression acoustique moyenne au carré telle que définie dans la CEI 61689, ... carré peut être remplacée par l'intensité dérivée de la moyenne temporelle.
IEC Glossary
std.iec.ch/.../379f28d00bdd89c5c125733300266725?...Translate this page
... la pression acoustique moyenne au carré telle que définie dans la CEI 61689; ... au carré peut être remplacée par intensité dérivée de la moyenne temporelle.
and, last but not least, everyone's favourite:
Intensité acoustique — Wikipédia
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensité_acoustiqueTranslate this page
L'intensité acoustique, qui est la moyenne temporelle de l'intensité ... champ libre, l'intensité acoustique est proportionnelle au carré de la pression acoustique.
Avant-propos - ISO
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#!iso:std:iso:1680:ed-2...Transla... this page
dix fois le logarithme décimal du rapport de la moyenne temporelle du carré de la pression acoustique, p, sur un intervalle de temps donné, T (commençant à t1 ...
Avant-propos - ISO
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#!iso:std:iso:20906:ed...Translat... this page
L'ISO 20906 a été élaborée par le comité technique ISO/TC 43, Acoustique, .... du rapport de la moyenne temporelle du carré de la pression acoustique, p, sur ...
802-01-08 - Electropedia
www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?...ievref...Transl... this page
... la pression acoustique moyenne au carré telle que définie dans la CEI 61689, ... carré peut être remplacée par l'intensité dérivée de la moyenne temporelle.
IEC Glossary
std.iec.ch/.../379f28d00bdd89c5c125733300266725?...Translate this page
... la pression acoustique moyenne au carré telle que définie dans la CEI 61689; ... au carré peut être remplacée par intensité dérivée de la moyenne temporelle.
and, last but not least, everyone's favourite:
Intensité acoustique — Wikipédia
fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intensité_acoustiqueTranslate this page
L'intensité acoustique, qui est la moyenne temporelle de l'intensité ... champ libre, l'intensité acoustique est proportionnelle au carré de la pression acoustique.
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: Yes of course! That's the one!
5 hrs
|
agree |
Daryo
: yes, here "the squares of ..." are compared
9 hrs
|
neutral |
Johannes Gleim
: La moyenne temporelle de l'intensité ne doit par quadruplé, préalablement du calcul de logarithme, la proportion des pressions est déjà quadruple dans la formule.
12 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "merci !"
-1
4 mins
le carré de la moyenne de temps
proposé
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2015-02-11 00:43:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(Tmax_Tmin)/2 au carré
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2015-02-11 00:43:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
(Tmax_Tmin)/2 au carré
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Tony M
: I remain seriously unconvinced it is possible to have a 'moyenne de temps' — now a 'moyenne' OVER time, I could understand. / Ah, now 'temps moyen' is something quite different altogether! But not what it's about here.
3 hrs
|
un temps moyen ça éxiste, désolé
|
|
neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: Wrong. Unless you can post a reliable webref - especially considering you're claiming confidence 4. // c'est ça !! C'est quoi, ça ?
3 hrs
|
c'est çà
|
|
disagree |
Daryo
: (1) le carré de la moyenne NON c’est la moyenne des carrés de ... (2) moyenne de temps NON ce n'est pas le temps qui est mesuré mais les variations dans le temps d'une autre variable (la pression acoustique) // nuances & petits détails secondaires...
12 hrs
|
non
|
-2
7 hrs
moyenne quadratique de la pression acoustique au cours du temps
Another formulation
5 hrs
moyenne quadratique (valeur efficace)
In all scientific fields, dealing with waves, uses the root-mean-square (r.m.s.) formula to determine the average (effective) value (moyenne quadratique, valeur efficace). This is also valid for acoustics.
The averaged (r.m.s.) sound pressure value is compared to the reference level (10 exp(-12) W/m*m). The logarithm of this ratio is then multiplied by 10. Example: If the sound pressure ratio results in 8 Bel, it will be expressed as 80 decibel, the loudness of a noisy street.
Note: These explanations have been verified by consulting my reference books for physics.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2015-02-11 10:52:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sound intensity
In a sound wave, the complementary variable to sound pressure is the particle velocity. Together they determine the sound intensity of the wave.
Sound intensity, denoted I and measured in W•m−2, is given by:
I = pv
where:
• p is the sound pressure, measured in Pa;
• v is the particle velocity, measured in m•s−1.
:
Sound pressure level (SPL) or acoustic pressure level is a logarithmic measure of the effective sound pressure of a sound relative to a reference value.
Sound pressure level, denoted Lp and measured in dB, above a standard reference level, is given by:
Lp = 10 log 10 (p rms²/p 0²) = 20 log10 (p rms/p 0) dB (SPL)
where:
• prms is the root mean square sound pressure, measured in Pa;[3]
• p0 is the reference sound pressure, measured in Pa.
The commonly used reference sound pressure in air is p0 = 20 μPa (RMS) or 0.0002 dynes/cm2, which is usually considered the threshold of human hearing (roughly the sound of a mosquito flying 3 m away).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure#Sound_pressure_l...
La pression acoustique est la valeur efficace, sur un intervalle de temps donné, de l'amplitude de la variation rapide de la pression atmosphérique qui cause une impression sonore. L'unité SI pour la pression est le pascal (équivalent au N/m², symbole : Pa) ; cette unité s'applique à la pression acoustique.
:
Pression acoustique efficace (RMS)
Pour les mesures de niveau sonore, on s'intéresse moins aux valeurs de la pression sonore instantanée qu'à la puissance que les ondes sonores peuvent mobiliser, dont dépendent les effets du son, notamment sur l'oreille. C'est donc cette puissance, proportionnelle au carré de la pression acoustique, qui sert pour évaluer le niveau sonore.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pression_acoustique
● Decibel Table − SPL − Loudness Comparison Chart ●
Table of Sound Levels (dB Scale) and the corresponding Units of Sound Pressure and Sound Intensity (Examples)
Decibel level and comparison of common sounds
:
The values are averaged and can differ about ±10 dB. With sound pressure p is
always meant the root mean square value (RMS) of the sound pressure, without
extra announcement. The amplitude of the sound pressure means the peak value.
The sound pressure (RMS) is the most important quantity in sound measurement.
Example from the table below:
Kerbside of busy road, 5 m 80 dB;
Sound pressure 0.2 N/m² (Pa)
Sound intensity 0.0001 W/m²
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
Since sound measuring instruments respond to sound pressure the "decibel" is generally associated with sound pressure level. Sound pressure levels quantify in decibels the intensity of given sound sources. Sound pressure levels vary substantially with distance from source, and also diminish as a result of intervening obstacles and barriers, air absorption, wind and other factors.
Lp = 20 log10 (p/p 0) = 10 log10 (p/p 0)²
The usual reference level po is 20x10-6 N/m2. Note that the noise from motors is documented in sound power level. "Threshold of audibility'' or the minimum pressure fluctuation detected by the ear is less than 10-9 of atmospheric pressure or about 20x10-5 N/m2 at 1000 Hz. "Threshold of pain'' corresponds to a pressure 106 times greater, but still less than 1/1000 of atmospheric pressure. Because of the wide range, sound pressure measurements are made on a logarithmic scale (decibel scale).
http://www.usmotors.com/TechDocs/ProFacts/Sound-Power-Pressu...
inverse square law Sound Pressure Level. Sound propagates in all directions to form a spherical field, thus sound energy is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, i.e., doubling the distance quarters the sound energy (the inverse square law), so SPL is attenuated 6 dB for each doubling.
:
sound pressure level or SPL 1. A measure of intensity. The rms sound pressure expressed in dB re 20 microPa (the lowest threshold of hearing for 1 kHz). [As points of reference, 0 dB-SPL equals the threshold of hearing, while 140 dB-SPL equals irreparable hearing damage.] See: inverse square law
http://www.rane.com/par-s.html#SPL
In mathematics, the root mean square (abbreviated RMS or rms), also known as the quadratic mean, is a statistical measure of the magnitude of a varying quantity. It is especially useful when variates are positive and negative, e.g., sinusoids.
:
The RMS value of a set of values (or a continuous-time waveform) is the square root of the arithmetic mean of the squares of the original values (or the square of the function that defines the continuous waveform).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square
La moyenne quadratique est une moyenne d'une liste de valeurs, définie comme la racine de la moyenne des carrés des valeurs :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyenne_quadratique
Conclusion : La moyenne quadratique est implique automatiquement dans le calcul de la pression acoustique, même si elle n’est pas mentionnée expressivement.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2015-02-12 10:42:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As some peers may not be familiar with the laws of logarithms, I think it is useful to copy also the relevant explanations from Wikipedia and other sources:
In mathematics, the logarithm of a number is the exponent to which another fixed value, the base, must be raised to produce that number. For example, the logarithm of 1000 to base 10 is 3, because 10 to the power 3 is 1000: 1000 = 10 × 10 × 10 = 103. … The logarithm to base 10 (b = 10) is called the common logarithm and has many applications in science and engineering
:
The logarithm of the p-th power of a number is p times the logarithm of the number itself; the logarithm of a p-th root is the logarithm of the number divided by p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
Le logarithme de base b d'un nombre réel strictement positif est la puissance à laquelle il faut élever la base b pour obtenir ce nombre. Par exemple, le logarithme de mille en base dix est 3, car 1000 = 103. Le logarithme de x en base b est noté logb(x). Ainsi log10(1000) = 3.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithme
En acoustique, une différence de un décibel ou un dB entre deux puissances signifie que le logarithme du rapport entre ces deux puissances est de 0,1 (un dixième de bel). Sachant qu'un logarithme de 0,1 correspond à un nombre égal à 1,26, une augmentation de 1 dB correspond à une multiplication de la puissance par 1,26. Une multiplication de la puissance sonore par 2 correspond à une augmentation de 3 dB.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithme_décimal
See also the laws of logarithms :
Third Law (for exponentiation of number)
Log An = n log A
http://www.mathcentre.ac.uk/resources/uploaded/mc-bus-loglaw...
Loi du logarithme
3- = Loi du logarithme d’une puissance
Log a MN = NLog a M
http://www.cableamos.com/sylvain.lacroix/maths/526-536/log/l...
e.g. log a² = 2 log a or in our application: 10 log a² = 20 log a.
The logarithmic notation reduces the exponentiation to a simple multiplication and eliminates all "carrés"
The averaged (r.m.s.) sound pressure value is compared to the reference level (10 exp(-12) W/m*m). The logarithm of this ratio is then multiplied by 10. Example: If the sound pressure ratio results in 8 Bel, it will be expressed as 80 decibel, the loudness of a noisy street.
Note: These explanations have been verified by consulting my reference books for physics.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2015-02-11 10:52:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Sound intensity
In a sound wave, the complementary variable to sound pressure is the particle velocity. Together they determine the sound intensity of the wave.
Sound intensity, denoted I and measured in W•m−2, is given by:
I = pv
where:
• p is the sound pressure, measured in Pa;
• v is the particle velocity, measured in m•s−1.
:
Sound pressure level (SPL) or acoustic pressure level is a logarithmic measure of the effective sound pressure of a sound relative to a reference value.
Sound pressure level, denoted Lp and measured in dB, above a standard reference level, is given by:
Lp = 10 log 10 (p rms²/p 0²) = 20 log10 (p rms/p 0) dB (SPL)
where:
• prms is the root mean square sound pressure, measured in Pa;[3]
• p0 is the reference sound pressure, measured in Pa.
The commonly used reference sound pressure in air is p0 = 20 μPa (RMS) or 0.0002 dynes/cm2, which is usually considered the threshold of human hearing (roughly the sound of a mosquito flying 3 m away).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure#Sound_pressure_l...
La pression acoustique est la valeur efficace, sur un intervalle de temps donné, de l'amplitude de la variation rapide de la pression atmosphérique qui cause une impression sonore. L'unité SI pour la pression est le pascal (équivalent au N/m², symbole : Pa) ; cette unité s'applique à la pression acoustique.
:
Pression acoustique efficace (RMS)
Pour les mesures de niveau sonore, on s'intéresse moins aux valeurs de la pression sonore instantanée qu'à la puissance que les ondes sonores peuvent mobiliser, dont dépendent les effets du son, notamment sur l'oreille. C'est donc cette puissance, proportionnelle au carré de la pression acoustique, qui sert pour évaluer le niveau sonore.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pression_acoustique
● Decibel Table − SPL − Loudness Comparison Chart ●
Table of Sound Levels (dB Scale) and the corresponding Units of Sound Pressure and Sound Intensity (Examples)
Decibel level and comparison of common sounds
:
The values are averaged and can differ about ±10 dB. With sound pressure p is
always meant the root mean square value (RMS) of the sound pressure, without
extra announcement. The amplitude of the sound pressure means the peak value.
The sound pressure (RMS) is the most important quantity in sound measurement.
Example from the table below:
Kerbside of busy road, 5 m 80 dB;
Sound pressure 0.2 N/m² (Pa)
Sound intensity 0.0001 W/m²
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/TableOfSoundPressureLevels.htm
Since sound measuring instruments respond to sound pressure the "decibel" is generally associated with sound pressure level. Sound pressure levels quantify in decibels the intensity of given sound sources. Sound pressure levels vary substantially with distance from source, and also diminish as a result of intervening obstacles and barriers, air absorption, wind and other factors.
Lp = 20 log10 (p/p 0) = 10 log10 (p/p 0)²
The usual reference level po is 20x10-6 N/m2. Note that the noise from motors is documented in sound power level. "Threshold of audibility'' or the minimum pressure fluctuation detected by the ear is less than 10-9 of atmospheric pressure or about 20x10-5 N/m2 at 1000 Hz. "Threshold of pain'' corresponds to a pressure 106 times greater, but still less than 1/1000 of atmospheric pressure. Because of the wide range, sound pressure measurements are made on a logarithmic scale (decibel scale).
http://www.usmotors.com/TechDocs/ProFacts/Sound-Power-Pressu...
inverse square law Sound Pressure Level. Sound propagates in all directions to form a spherical field, thus sound energy is inversely proportional to the square of the distance, i.e., doubling the distance quarters the sound energy (the inverse square law), so SPL is attenuated 6 dB for each doubling.
:
sound pressure level or SPL 1. A measure of intensity. The rms sound pressure expressed in dB re 20 microPa (the lowest threshold of hearing for 1 kHz). [As points of reference, 0 dB-SPL equals the threshold of hearing, while 140 dB-SPL equals irreparable hearing damage.] See: inverse square law
http://www.rane.com/par-s.html#SPL
In mathematics, the root mean square (abbreviated RMS or rms), also known as the quadratic mean, is a statistical measure of the magnitude of a varying quantity. It is especially useful when variates are positive and negative, e.g., sinusoids.
:
The RMS value of a set of values (or a continuous-time waveform) is the square root of the arithmetic mean of the squares of the original values (or the square of the function that defines the continuous waveform).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square
La moyenne quadratique est une moyenne d'une liste de valeurs, définie comme la racine de la moyenne des carrés des valeurs :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moyenne_quadratique
Conclusion : La moyenne quadratique est implique automatiquement dans le calcul de la pression acoustique, même si elle n’est pas mentionnée expressivement.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day16 hrs (2015-02-12 10:42:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
As some peers may not be familiar with the laws of logarithms, I think it is useful to copy also the relevant explanations from Wikipedia and other sources:
In mathematics, the logarithm of a number is the exponent to which another fixed value, the base, must be raised to produce that number. For example, the logarithm of 1000 to base 10 is 3, because 10 to the power 3 is 1000: 1000 = 10 × 10 × 10 = 103. … The logarithm to base 10 (b = 10) is called the common logarithm and has many applications in science and engineering
:
The logarithm of the p-th power of a number is p times the logarithm of the number itself; the logarithm of a p-th root is the logarithm of the number divided by p.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm
Le logarithme de base b d'un nombre réel strictement positif est la puissance à laquelle il faut élever la base b pour obtenir ce nombre. Par exemple, le logarithme de mille en base dix est 3, car 1000 = 103. Le logarithme de x en base b est noté logb(x). Ainsi log10(1000) = 3.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithme
En acoustique, une différence de un décibel ou un dB entre deux puissances signifie que le logarithme du rapport entre ces deux puissances est de 0,1 (un dixième de bel). Sachant qu'un logarithme de 0,1 correspond à un nombre égal à 1,26, une augmentation de 1 dB correspond à une multiplication de la puissance par 1,26. Une multiplication de la puissance sonore par 2 correspond à une augmentation de 3 dB.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithme_décimal
See also the laws of logarithms :
Third Law (for exponentiation of number)
Log An = n log A
http://www.mathcentre.ac.uk/resources/uploaded/mc-bus-loglaw...
Loi du logarithme
3- = Loi du logarithme d’une puissance
Log a MN = NLog a M
http://www.cableamos.com/sylvain.lacroix/maths/526-536/log/l...
e.g. log a² = 2 log a or in our application: 10 log a² = 20 log a.
The logarithmic notation reduces the exponentiation to a simple multiplication and eliminates all "carrés"
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Jennifer Levey
: You've omitted the essential concept of "time" from your translation. - Don't bother fighting ISO and IEC - life's too short!.
26 mins
|
I do not average the time, but the sound level over the time. Thus "time" is redundant.
|
|
neutral |
Tony M
: This is NOT the 'rms' value — no root is taken in this case.
3 hrs
|
The RMS is always implied in the measurement, see my excerpt from different Wikipedia sources. If you read these articles meticulously, you must agree.
|
Discussion
mais il contient aussi les lois du logarithmes (page 15). 10 log a² est donc 2 * 10 log a ou 20 log a. Le carré du nombre est réduit à une multiplication de la valeur.
2. Your links confirm my explanations:
3.4 Equivalent continuous sound pressure level
time-averaged sound pressure level
Lp,eq,T
ten times the logarithm to the base 10 of the ratio of the time average of the square of the sound pressure, p, during a stated time interval of duration,
https://www.iso.org/obp/ui/#iso:std:iso:20906:ed-1:v1:en:ed.... (in English only)
ISO 1860 is not available online.
The Electropedia link is broken. Referring to beam(-alignment) axis (ultrasound)
b) in cases .. the term pulse-pressure-squared integral may be replaced by temporal average intensity.
b) si .., l’expression intégrale de pression d’impulsion au carré peut être remplacée par l’intensité dérivée de la moyenne temporelle
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&iev...
I have a better link for you :
Area Acoustics and electroacoustics / General terms
en sound pressure
root-mean-square of instantaneous sound pressures over a given time interval, …
fr pression acoustique
racine сarréе de la moyenne quadratique des pressions acoustiques instantanées, calculée sur un intervalle de temps donné, …
International terminology standards (ISO, IEC, etc.) exist, quite precisely, to ensure harmony of understanding across scientific and language frontiers. As professional translators, we should use them - even in preference to what we might personally believe to be a more 'elegant' alternative. If nothing else, proper use of the standards provides the translator with a cast-iron defense in the event of a client querying the translator's 'personal' interpretation.
Also, as Tony has pointed out, there is no 'root' in the formula as defined, or as quoted.
Your hole is deep enough, and you're standing at the bottom. Either buy a spade with a longer handle, or a longer ladder :)
1. What 'editor' are you referring to?
2. Are you suggesting the ISO and IEC's French-language translators and editors are wrong? And, alongside them (indeed, as their primary source of standard terms and definitions), the many experts from francophone countries who sit on the terminology/vocabulary committees of those organizations?
The ST 'as quoted' is a straight quote from the English-language versions of those internationally recognised standards. There's no need to translate, interpret, re-write - less still denigrate anything or any-one. The French definition is already set in stone. Copy-paste from the French-language version suffices.
Note: Acc. to Laurent, the context deals with sound pressure level, not with sound intensity, what in fact is the square of sound pressure.
Try googling "time mean square" SPL acoustics and you'll find thousands of freebies from reputable sources.
As for the rest of your note, methinks this is hardly the place for a dissertation on theoretical acoustics.
So I'll have to take your word for it — can't say I've ever heard it expressed in quite that way before, is all ;-)
So this value is squared (so there are only positive values) and then averaged over time, before being compared with the square of the reference value? Is that the right way round?