Sep 30, 2014 11:00
9 yrs ago
16 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
commanditaire
French to English
Bus/Financial
Engineering: Industrial
(Legitimate) defence/arms industry
"Le marché de l’armement est particulier, car les fournisseurs et le commanditaire y sont extrêmement interdépendants"
This is not an area in which I have any experience (in fact I never take on defence/arms industry-related translations on principle, but this is just one section of a much more general discussion document) and I'm unfamiliar with the proper terms.
The general context is defence; this section more specifically is discussing strengthening ties between public and private sectors in the arms market. A bit further on, the text adds:
"Quant au commanditaire, il adopte un fonctionnement souvent trop complexe, désuet et excessivement perfectionniste"
and then goes on to suggest that the public sector and private industry should work more closely together, with a view to improving efficiency.
Surely the commanditaire is not an individual, but rather a government or at least an entity? Does anyone know what term would be most appropriate/what this is driving at? I have, of course, seen suggested translations for the term commanditaire, such as 'sponsor', 'backer', 'partner', but am not sure whether one or any of these terms is right in the context. My feeling is that it means 'the entity/state that puts up the funds for the arms', i.e. the entity that places the order. Is this right?
This is not an area in which I have any experience (in fact I never take on defence/arms industry-related translations on principle, but this is just one section of a much more general discussion document) and I'm unfamiliar with the proper terms.
The general context is defence; this section more specifically is discussing strengthening ties between public and private sectors in the arms market. A bit further on, the text adds:
"Quant au commanditaire, il adopte un fonctionnement souvent trop complexe, désuet et excessivement perfectionniste"
and then goes on to suggest that the public sector and private industry should work more closely together, with a view to improving efficiency.
Surely the commanditaire is not an individual, but rather a government or at least an entity? Does anyone know what term would be most appropriate/what this is driving at? I have, of course, seen suggested translations for the term commanditaire, such as 'sponsor', 'backer', 'partner', but am not sure whether one or any of these terms is right in the context. My feeling is that it means 'the entity/state that puts up the funds for the arms', i.e. the entity that places the order. Is this right?
Proposed translations
(English)
| 5 | Ordering Party/Consumer |
TatsianaThomson
|
| 4 | procurement unit |
B D Finch
|
| 3 | customer |
Sheri P
|
| 3 -1 | buyer |
Francis Murphy (X)
|
Proposed translations
-1
44 mins
buyer
In the context, indicating use of outdated methods and perfectionism, this is the buyer of the arms. The source document may not be using the best word in this case. A sponsor does not fit the context description, unless the text is focused on arms provided to users by third party governments or entities.
Peer comment(s):
| disagree |
Daryo
: "commanditaire" IS exactly the right term; I would rather call that "precision" (unless it's become an outdated concept?) not every buyer is a "commanditaire"
6 hrs
|
59 mins
customer
It may not be the usual translation for "commanditaire," but I think "customer" is commonly used in this context.
Lockheed Martin Corporation, based in Bethesda, Maryland, is the world’s largest defense contractor...Lockheed’s primary customer is the United States government, and specifically, the Department of Defense. The sales percentages by customer are:
U.S. Department of Defense - 57%
NASA & Other Government Agencies - 20%
International - 17%
Domestic Commercial - 6%
http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a/U.S. Defense Industry an...
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Note added at 2 hrs (2014-09-30 13:57:57 GMT)
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My feeling is that "commanditaire" is being used here to mean an entity that *commissions* arms. Unfortunately, that sense doesn't really come through in the EN noun "commissioner."
Lockheed Martin Corporation, based in Bethesda, Maryland, is the world’s largest defense contractor...Lockheed’s primary customer is the United States government, and specifically, the Department of Defense. The sales percentages by customer are:
U.S. Department of Defense - 57%
NASA & Other Government Agencies - 20%
International - 17%
Domestic Commercial - 6%
http://web.stanford.edu/class/e297a/U.S. Defense Industry an...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2014-09-30 13:57:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
My feeling is that "commanditaire" is being used here to mean an entity that *commissions* arms. Unfortunately, that sense doesn't really come through in the EN noun "commissioner."
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: "an entity that *commissions* arms development/production" - you nailed it, exactly that
7 hrs
|
|
Thank you for the feedback.
|
3 hrs
TatsianaThomson
Canada
Canada
Canada
You create, I creatively translate.
Native in: Russian 
Works in: English to Russian, Russian to English, French to Russian, and 1 more.
Ordering Party/Consumer
Customer is also widely used in military.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Daryo
: "Ordering Party" would be fine // a "consumer" is diametrically opposed to a "commanditaire" although both are the one paying.
3 hrs
|
21 hrs
procurement unit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16287204
"Defence industry leaders have said the MoD's procurement unit lacks the skills it needs to deal effectively with defence companies."
And not just the army:
www.westlothian.gov.uk/search?q=core values...ANY...1...
27 Jun 2014 - The council's Corporate Procurement Unit...
"Defence industry leaders have said the MoD's procurement unit lacks the skills it needs to deal effectively with defence companies."
And not just the army:
www.westlothian.gov.uk/search?q=core values...ANY...1...
27 Jun 2014 - The council's Corporate Procurement Unit...
Discussion
An ordinary customer/buyer gets an offer and either buys or not what's offered.
To be a "commanditaire" implies a totally different level of involvement - the "client" is doing ways more than just buying, he is the one defining what is going to be offered, will be participating in product testing and development, in all stages of product design and later manufacturing, where a bog standard "customer/buyer" would be politely asked to get lost.
To make it short: if you buy an existing property you are a mere buyer (acheteur); if you get an architect and tell him what exactly you want and have a say at every stage leading to the finished house, you are a "commanditaire".
What this text is saying is that the officials representing the State in the arms procurement process (usually from the Army or the Ministry of defense), who are acting as "commanditaire" on behalf of the State are exercising their influence in the wrong way (= un fonctionnement souvent trop complexe, désuet et excessivement perfectionniste)