Glossary entry

German term or phrase:

Fahnenpatin

English translation:

Godmother of the Regimental Colours

Added to glossary by Frosty
Jan 29, 2014 15:37
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
German term

Fahnenpatin

German to English Other Military / Defense Military history
This is from a newspaper report of 1909 commemorating the preparations of the Austrian Landwehr in 1809, preparing to go to war with the French. There is a long description of the mass and the ceremony in St Stephansdom. The Empress Ludowika then arrives,

"...und auch die Kaiserin, die Fahnenpatin der Landwehrbataillone, begrüßte sie mit anmutsvollem Lächeln"

I want to find an English equivalent, if one exists, as well as using the German honorary title. It is clear that she is some kind of ceremonial representative of the flag, but I can't come up with a nice English term for this.

(this is a favour for a friend, not a job!)
Thanks in advance!
Proposed translations (English)
3 Godmother of the Regimental Colours
Change log

Jan 29, 2014 15:45: franglish changed "Level" from "Non-PRO" to "PRO"

Feb 4, 2014 10:55: Frosty Created KOG entry

Votes to reclassify question as PRO/non-PRO:

PRO (3): Coqueiro, Steffen Walter, franglish

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Discussion

David Friemann, MA Jan 29, 2014:
I would tend to agree with Frosty. When ships are christened, which is usually done by women, these women become the ship's godmothers. The concepts seem to be very similar.

Proposed translations

43 mins
Selected

Godmother of the Regimental Colours

‘twould appear to be a specifically Austrian affair, which is still being nurtured to the present day – see this link:

Neue Fahne

Als besonderes Zeichen der Wertschätzung und als Dank für 50 Jahre treuer Unterstützung stiftete Wien dem Militärkommando eine neue Fahne. Die Übergabe erfolgte durch Bürgermeister Häupl im Rahmen der Angelobung, als Fahnenpatin fungiert seine Gattin Barbara Hörnlein.

http://www.bmlv.gv.at/cms/artikel.php?ID=6522

To the best of my memory, after many years in the British Army, we have nothing similar. The Colours are essentially a unit matter, and in days of yore the job of taking care of them fell to the Colour Sergeant (same rank as Staff Sergeant).

The above suggestion is thus about as close as one might come to a blending of Austrian and British military sensibilities. As for the cousins across the pond – who knows!
Note from asker:
Thanks a lot - I wondered about Godmother in a military context because Pate/Patin are also used as a kind of sponsor/mentor, but I am happy to accept your experience as authoritative and will use it for now at least! Thanks again.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "The other answer was for reference only, so the points have to go here! Thanks again."

Reference comments

5 hrs
Reference:

Colonel of the Regiment. Presentation of (new) colours.

1. "Ceremonial ranks - Colonel of the Regiment.
In the British Army, colonel may also refer to the ceremonial head of a regiment. This is almost always a general officer, brigadier or colonel, often retired, with a close link to the regiment in question. Some non-military personnel may be appointed to the position, thereby holding an honorary rank of colonel for the duration of the appointment, though usually with the Territorial Army units. The position is often described as "Colonel of the Regiment", to distinguish it from the rank of colonel. When attending functions as "Colonel of the Regiment", the officer wears the rank insignia of (full) colonel, regardless of their official rank. This position may also be held by a member of the Royal Family, who is then known as a "Royal Colonel". Colonel-in-Chief is also a ceremonial title of the British Army. It is usually held by a member of the Royal Family. The Colonel of the Regiment often has a closer involvement with the regiment and its Regimental Association than does the Colonel-in-Chief, as she/he has usually had direct military involvement, unlike the members of the Royal Family."
2. Presentation of colours.
"In British military organisations the word ‘Colour’ is used to describe both the regimental flags of infantry battalions and the flags of the Household Cavalry.
'Colours' are large brocade and embroidery flags which were originally carried into battle so that soldiers of a particular unit could see where the rest of their unit was located at all times and used as a rallying point during the course of the battle. Although the Colours are no longer carried in battle, they constitute the symbol of the Regiments' honour and represent its devotion to duty. As such they are held in the greatest esteem by the soldiers and officers. They are brought out on important parades and regimental occasions and are escorted by a ‘Colour Party’.
The infantry units of the British army each have two Colours: the Queen's Colour, which is a union flag and symbolises the regiment's loyalty to the Crown, and a regimental Colour which has all the unit's battle honours inscribed on it. Thus a 'stand' or pair of Colours for a regiment normally comprises:
A Queen's Colour: usually with the design of the Union Flag with a gold circle in the centre, within which the regiment's name (and sometimes initials or number) are inscribed.
A Regimental Colour: usually a plain flag in the colour of the regiment's 'facings' (traditionally the colour of the lining of the redcoat jacket) or the Cross of St George, with the regiment's insignia in the centre.
New Colours are occasionally presented to a Regiment by The Queen or another member of the Royal Family, often to mark a special anniversary or event in the Regiment's history. The special ceremony at which the new Colours are presented usually involves a parade and an inspection by the member of the Royal Family who is present. The Queen will often give a short speech. In 2012, when Her Majesty presented new colours to the Coldstream Guards, The Queen said:
'Thirteen years have passed since I presented you with the Colours which have just been marched off. Since then, there have been many changes in your ranks, but the spirit of the Regiment has remained intact through all the challenges and dangers which you have been required to face.'
Following the presentation of new Colours, the flags being replaced are not destroyed but are laid up in a regimental museum, church, or other military building with significance to its particular unit."
Note from asker:
That's fantastic information, and fits the context really well - thank you. Especially as I'm in the lucky position of being able to pass all the information on, rather than having to choose a specific term.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree Lancashireman : Colonel-in-Chief
4 hrs
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