Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
fait adventice
English translation:
adventitious fact
Added to glossary by
Wendy Cummings
Sep 5, 2013 09:24
10 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
United Kingdom
The highest professional standards
Native in: English
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English
fait adventice
French to English
Law/Patents
Law (general)
arbitration
This is a pourvoi in an arbitration case where the appeal is based on a breach of the adversarial principle and that the arbitrator based his ruling on a point not actually raised by the parties. Here are some examples of how this term is used:
Devant le tribunal arbitral, « le principe de la contradiction y est aussi essentiel que devant le juge étatique.
Or, il est nécessairement bafoué si le juge ou l'arbitre fonde sa décision sur une règle de droit ignorée du débat, ou sur un fait, nécessairement adventice, appréhendé d'office par le juge. En outre, le débat contradictoire permet seul aux parties d'apporter à l'arbitre des faits qui contredisent les faits adventices par lui révélés ou en modifieraient l'interprétation
Ainsi, si l'arbitre peut se fonder sur des faits que les parties n'ont pas spécialement invoqués, sur des faits adventices, c'est-à-dire tirés du dossier, il doit alors respecter le principe de la contradiction et inviter les parties à s'expliquer sur ces faits.
On comprend que la Cour de cassation vise parfois, pour appliquer l'article 16 du nouveau Code de procédure civile, un moyen de droit, alors que les juges du fond ont relevé un fait adventice dans les conclusions ou le dossier.
The dictionary gives "self-propagating" for adventice, which I presume here refers to the fact that the information was "self-propagated" by the arbitrator (i.e. proposed d'office). If so, then I could try some phrase such as "self-proposed fact", but that is awkward not to mention not very good English. Is there a legal term for this or, if not, can someone come up with a suitable (pref. snappy, given the already wordy nature of this doc) alternative?
Thanks.
Devant le tribunal arbitral, « le principe de la contradiction y est aussi essentiel que devant le juge étatique.
Or, il est nécessairement bafoué si le juge ou l'arbitre fonde sa décision sur une règle de droit ignorée du débat, ou sur un fait, nécessairement adventice, appréhendé d'office par le juge. En outre, le débat contradictoire permet seul aux parties d'apporter à l'arbitre des faits qui contredisent les faits adventices par lui révélés ou en modifieraient l'interprétation
Ainsi, si l'arbitre peut se fonder sur des faits que les parties n'ont pas spécialement invoqués, sur des faits adventices, c'est-à-dire tirés du dossier, il doit alors respecter le principe de la contradiction et inviter les parties à s'expliquer sur ces faits.
On comprend que la Cour de cassation vise parfois, pour appliquer l'article 16 du nouveau Code de procédure civile, un moyen de droit, alors que les juges du fond ont relevé un fait adventice dans les conclusions ou le dossier.
The dictionary gives "self-propagating" for adventice, which I presume here refers to the fact that the information was "self-propagated" by the arbitrator (i.e. proposed d'office). If so, then I could try some phrase such as "self-proposed fact", but that is awkward not to mention not very good English. Is there a legal term for this or, if not, can someone come up with a suitable (pref. snappy, given the already wordy nature of this doc) alternative?
Thanks.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +2 | adventitious |
Marie-Helene Dubois
|
| 3 | incidental |
Tim Webb
|
| 3 | allegation of fact made by the party to a case |
Ellen Kraus
|
References
| fait adventice |
Ellen Kraus
|
Proposed translations
+2
4 hrs
Marie-Helene Dubois
Spain
Spain
Native in English
Specializes in field
Spain
Word class
Native in: English 
Works in: Spanish to English, Dutch to English, French to English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
27
Selected
adventitious
I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with a literal translation in this case.
FYI, my Grand Robert specifies that "adventice" means "self-propagating" in the context of "botanique" so I don't think that this is the right meaning for this context, although the explanations contained in the dictionary are rather sparse to say the least.
"Un fait adventice" is no more common in French than "an adventitious fact" is in English from what I can see.
See: Olmstead v. United States - Legal Information Institute - Cornell ...www.law.cornell.edu/.../USSC_CR_0277_0438_ZD.h...En cache
Pages similairesTraduire cette page
de Supreme Court - 1928 - Cité 12909 fois - Autres articles
Since then, this Court has repeatedly sustained the exercise of power by Congress, ... They reach farther than the concrete form of the case there before the court, with its adventitious circumstances; they apply ... As Judge Rudkin said below:.
PDF]CHAPTER VI· JUDICIAL LAW REFORM A. JUDGES AS LAW ...www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/.../DW-Comparative-Chapter...En cacheTraduire cette page
Oireachtas. The courts declare what the law is -- it is for the Oireachtas to make ... not believe that the jUdge is equipped, or ought to be equipped. to make law. ...... 2) Judicial law reform depends on the "adventitious concatenation of the deter-.
NSA is upholding, not subverting, the law - FT.comwww.ft.com › CommentEn cacheTraduire cette page
10 juin 2013 - Once the programs identify particular persons, a judge (or panel of ..... of the case there before the court, with its adventitious circumstances; ...
FYI, my Grand Robert specifies that "adventice" means "self-propagating" in the context of "botanique" so I don't think that this is the right meaning for this context, although the explanations contained in the dictionary are rather sparse to say the least.
"Un fait adventice" is no more common in French than "an adventitious fact" is in English from what I can see.
See: Olmstead v. United States - Legal Information Institute - Cornell ...www.law.cornell.edu/.../USSC_CR_0277_0438_ZD.h...En cache
Pages similairesTraduire cette page
de Supreme Court - 1928 - Cité 12909 fois - Autres articles
Since then, this Court has repeatedly sustained the exercise of power by Congress, ... They reach farther than the concrete form of the case there before the court, with its adventitious circumstances; they apply ... As Judge Rudkin said below:.
PDF]CHAPTER VI· JUDICIAL LAW REFORM A. JUDGES AS LAW ...www.ucc.ie/law/irishlaw/.../DW-Comparative-Chapter...En cacheTraduire cette page
Oireachtas. The courts declare what the law is -- it is for the Oireachtas to make ... not believe that the jUdge is equipped, or ought to be equipped. to make law. ...... 2) Judicial law reform depends on the "adventitious concatenation of the deter-.
NSA is upholding, not subverting, the law - FT.comwww.ft.com › CommentEn cacheTraduire cette page
10 juin 2013 - Once the programs identify particular persons, a judge (or panel of ..... of the case there before the court, with its adventitious circumstances; ...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks."
58 mins
incidental
There are many options, some snappier than others! It could stay as adventitious, or fortuitous...
Take your pick from the Collins Thesaurus : http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/anglais-definition/adventiti...
BTW: "contradictoire" is often seen translated as "adversarial", but to me they are two completely different things. Worth checking ...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-09-05 13:05:00 GMT)
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Yes, Wendy, incidental may not be quite right as it is too narrow in meaning. Unfortunately, I don't know how you will find a short English equivalent. <br> Thanks to your posting, we all know now that "faits adventices" are faits allégués par les parties mais dont elles n’ont tiré aucune conséquence juridique
<br>
The best I can do is: facts raised but not used as evidence by the parties
Any specialists out there?
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Note added at 3 hrs (2013-09-05 13:15:43 GMT)
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Audi alteram partem is the translation of contradictoire. It is not one of the adversarial principles (which are:
(1) The judge must not intervene unduly; Judge is not allowed to call witnesses.(this can be ground for appeal).
(2) The truth is best discovered by strong statements on both sides of the equation.
(3) Every party is responsible for its witnesses, the disclosure of evidence, researching the relevant law, and for expert testimony. )
Don't trust Linguee ....
Take your pick from the Collins Thesaurus : http://dictionnaire.reverso.net/anglais-definition/adventiti...
BTW: "contradictoire" is often seen translated as "adversarial", but to me they are two completely different things. Worth checking ...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-09-05 13:05:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, Wendy, incidental may not be quite right as it is too narrow in meaning. Unfortunately, I don't know how you will find a short English equivalent. <br> Thanks to your posting, we all know now that "faits adventices" are faits allégués par les parties mais dont elles n’ont tiré aucune conséquence juridique
<br>
The best I can do is: facts raised but not used as evidence by the parties
Any specialists out there?
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2013-09-05 13:15:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Audi alteram partem is the translation of contradictoire. It is not one of the adversarial principles (which are:
(1) The judge must not intervene unduly; Judge is not allowed to call witnesses.(this can be ground for appeal).
(2) The truth is best discovered by strong statements on both sides of the equation.
(3) Every party is responsible for its witnesses, the disclosure of evidence, researching the relevant law, and for expert testimony. )
Don't trust Linguee ....
Note from asker:
| Incidental implies the fact might not matter that much, whereas a "fait adventice" can be a highly important fact, just one that the parties have not specifically raised during their discussions, even though it is written somewhere in the case docs |
| Several reliable refs on Proz and tinternet for "adversarial principle" or "audi alteram partem" |
| Never use linguee, but I do trust Tom Thumb http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/law_general/3639691-principe_de_la_contradiction.html |
9 hrs
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Specializes in field
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German 
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
126
allegation of fact made by the party to a case
le domaine des faits est essentiellement du ressort des plaideurs. Il leur revient d´alléguer les faits de nature à fonder leurs pretensions. Mais le juge peut prendre en considération les faits adventices qui sont les faits allégués par les parties mais dont elles n´ont tiré aucune conséquence juridique.
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Tim Webb
: Yes, but most importantly, they are facts stated in the case but which are not relied on by the parties. The judge can still take them into account, but he must respect audi alteram partem and give the parties the opportunity to answer them
13 hrs
|
Reference comments
8 hrs
Ellen Kraus
Austria
Austria
Specializes in field
Austria
more than thirty years of experience
Native in: German
Works in: Greek to German, English to German, Greek to English, and 5 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
126
Reference:
fait adventice
Procédure civile.indd - Presses universitaires de Grenoble
www.pug.fr/extract/show/1350
produits dans l'instance, le juge pourra extraire ce fait du témoi- gnage sans qu'il soit nécessaire qu'une partie l'ait allégué. Le fait adventice est donc un fait ...
www.pug.fr/extract/show/1350
produits dans l'instance, le juge pourra extraire ce fait du témoi- gnage sans qu'il soit nécessaire qu'une partie l'ait allégué. Le fait adventice est donc un fait ...
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