...from the Oxford.
Luck Suani!
terry

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Note added at 2003-08-03 22:52:17 (GMT)
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Refs:

History of Spain - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... Dissatisfied with the slow pace of post-Franco liberalization, in July 1976,
the King replaced Franco\'s last prime minister with Adolfo Suarez. ...
www.worldrover.com/history/spain_history.html - 13k - En caché - Páginas similares

globalEDGE (TM) | country insights - History of Spain - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... Dissatisfied with the slow pace of post-Franco liberalization, in July 1976,
the King replaced Franco\'s last Prime Minister with Adolfo Suarez. ...
globaledge.msu.edu/ibrd/ CountryHistory.asp?CountryID=73&RegionID=2 - 31k - En caché - Páginas similares

XII--Course Descriptions, Spanish Studies - [ Traduzca esta página ]
... in the aesthetics of both film and literature of the Franco dictatorship and censorship
in particular; the importance of post-Franco liberalization on women\'s ...
www.uoguelph.ca/undergrad_calendar/12span.shtml



t

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Note added at 2003-08-03 23:15:07 (GMT)
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agtranslat expresses some doubt so here [copied and pasted] are the definitions from the Oxford:

destape m
a (desnudo) nudity; el destape en el cine nudity in movies; revista de destape erotic
magazine
b (en las ideas, costumbres) liberalization



t

Yo le daría el toque "erótico", ya que a menudo se ha circunscrito a la faceta cinematográfica (creciente número de castos desnudos en las películas de la transición). Tendrías que usar el término entre comillas, algo así como "stripping old traditions" - Ir quitándose de encima las viejas tradiciones como quien se quita un vestido, me encanta este simil.

Un saludo,

Rb

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Note added at 2003-08-03 23:26:13 (GMT)
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No quiero decir que esta sea la mejor opción, pero cuidado con los términos que empleamos. Yo soy español y he nacido durante la transición. Conozco el \"destape\", que fundamentalmente ha perdurado como un término cinematográfico (la época del destape, la época de los desnudos en cine, del final de la censura, aunque por extensión se pueda aplicar a todas las facetas de una sociedad convulsionada). No sé cómo llaman esto en el mundo anglosajón, de hecho dudo de que exista un término, si no es el original entre comillas, pero me temo que simplemente con \"freedom\" o \"liberalization\" no llegamos a aportarle todo su significado, nos perdemos el matiz y muy especialmente la chispa erótica del término, que os recuerdo, es la que ha perdurado hasta hoy.

Margaret, estoy en desacuerdo contigo, pese a que te envidio por los sentimientos que debes de haber vivido en aquella época mágica.

Un saludo,

Rb

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Note added at 2003-08-03 23:58:45 (GMT)
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Margaret, no hay resquemor!!! :^D
Sólo intentamos encontrar el mejor término y ayudar a Suani lo mejor posible. Las \"polémicas\" son muy sanas en cuanto ayudan a conocer mejor el contexto, especialmente si son a base de propuestas razonadas, como desde luego es la tuya y espero que la mía también. No hay nada personal, y de hecho, gracias al \"destape\", en España podemos opinar libremente, así que... qué más se puede decir.

Un saludo,

Rb

I lived through this period in Spain and this was the true sensation. People, especially in Catalonia, the Basques country, etc. could not believe that the dictarship was over. The left-wingers (NOT communists) began to show face again after many years of exile, people were allowed to openly speak their own language (Catalan, Basque, etc.) in the streets, and a very long etc. It was a wonderful moment for most Spaniards (I'm getting too involved here...... sorry!!!!!)

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Note added at 2003-08-03 23:21:41 (GMT)
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sorry for the typos.... \"the Basque country\"
...\"that the dictatorship was\"...

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Note added at 2003-08-03 23:52:54 (GMT)
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Ruben. All I\'m trying to say here is that I do not think, going from Suani\'s statement, that this has to do with \"Stripping\" in the films (that actually happened before Franco died). I believe it\'s about the liberalization as mentioned by Terry, but to me, I prefer \"Freedom\" (which is much more romantic than liberalization, in my opinion) due to what I explained. But it\'s not so important. Don\'t worry. Also, AlwaysMoving, I was not \"talking politics\", only stating facts.

and by extension, of intellectual prudery and political corseting.

Characteristic of the post-Franco wave of openness, bodily parts which had hitherto been kept strictly out of the public's eye could now be freely shown, even at breakfast time on TV. Hence the term.



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Note added at 2003-08-04 10:19:00 (GMT)
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Thanks, Terry, for quoting the Oxford now in full. I am sure in a next edition they will, if prompted, add an entry or expand on those they have now so as to better illustrate their users about this sociological moment in the history of Spain. Or again, they may not, it\'s a general purpose dictionary, anyway.

Susana makes a very good point. Destape being eponymous with a certain historical period, it is better left explained than translated.

you may leave 'detape' as well since the term was originated that time- literally meaning 'undressing'

Destape es un substantivo coloquial, y por eso no se puede traducir a una palabra equivalentemente coloquial del ingles porque no la hay. De manera que se tiene que usar un termino mas formal y que generalmente se use en el ingles de los EEUU y de otros paises anglo-sajones. Para describir una clase de movimiento social parecido al de la madre patria despues de la epoca de Franco, aqui en los EEUU se habla mucho de la liberacion femenina y de la liberacion sexual, etc. Por lo tanto, la palabra que siempre se usa para esa clase de liberacion es "liberation." Ademas, si se quiere enfatizar el sentido al estilo de la expresion de "caja de pandora" (pandora box) o "se salio el genio de la botella" (the gene got out of the bottle), entonces el adjetivo ingles "unleashed" o "unleashing" puede completar el significado equivalente al termino requerido.



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Note added at 2003-08-04 03:31:22 (GMT)
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AFTER-THOUGHT: Perhaps, taking into account Susana\'s precise terms and keeping Terry\'s noun and Cloudy\'s verb-turned-adjective, I would modify mine like this:

unleashed political and social liberation/[liberalization]

Yes, the original Spanish term could still be used as a referent word between quotation marks, before adding the most approximate equivalent English expression as an explanation in itself.

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Note added at 2003-08-04 04:18:34 (GMT)
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Even better, the words political and social can be reversed in positon and joined to occupy less space like this:

unleashed sociopolitical liberation[liberalization]



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Note added at 2003-08-04 04:23:08 (GMT)
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Even better, the words political and social can be reversed in positon and joined to occupy less space like this:

unleashed sociopolitical liberation[liberalization]



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Note added at 2003-08-04 04:23:10 (GMT)
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Even better, the words political and social can be reversed in positon and joined to occupy less space like this:

unleashed sociopolitical liberation[liberalization]



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Note added at 2003-08-04 04:23:12 (GMT)
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Even better, the words political and social can be reversed in positon and joined to occupy less space like this:

unleashed sociopolitical liberation[liberalization]



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Note added at 2003-08-06 00:26:33 (GMT)
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After-thought: The more I read and compare all the answers, the more convinced I get that this word could not be \"translated\" (using quotation marks) without following it with an explanation as our collegue Susana Galilea suggests. The problem is that such historical reaction or movement was iconed and coined with a very narrow name. It seems that such movement was just part of a larger sociocultural revolution that was only one part and a bi-product of the whole socio-cultural changes that erupted as a result of the end of Franco\'s era and his political (and religious) dictatorship on the whole Spanish Society. Hence, the words sociopolitical liberation fit well the description of the whole panorama, of which the sexual liberation [revolution], (including its behavioral expression of \"el destape\"), was just a part. Before I write my last suggestion to Ms. Suani V. Camacho, let me quote this passage from \"TIME Almanac 2000\" related to the end of the Franco era, seven years after his death: \"In 1969, Franco and the [courts] designated Prince Juan Carlos . . . de Borbon to become King of Spain when the provisional government headed by Franco came to an end. Franco died . . . on . . .1975. . ., after more than a year of ill health, and Juan Carlos [became] king [7] days later]. With the overwhelming election of Prime Minister Felipe Gonzalez [M.] and his Spanish Sociolist Workers Party in . . . 1982, parliamentary elections, the Franco past was finally buried.\" These dates and political eventful changes served as marks and ending parenthesis of an era marked by a political dictatorship which imposed not only political censorship (as most dictatorships do) but also sexual censorship in most of its cultural and individual expressions. One of the cultural revolutions or unleashing changes was the sexual liberation in the arts, entertainment, dressing syles (with the option of undressing or partial body exhibitionism in movies, pictures, etc) and the relaxation of the social mores and norms, all of which Spaniards coined with the Spanish word, \"destape.\" So, I would recomend to Ms. Suani V. Camacho the following:

1)Take into account the Anglo-Saxon reader because this has to do with a Spanish-English translation. Remember, that most Americans are very politically conscientious, and, therefore, they still believe in political solutions that take into account the majority will of the masses. They believe that sociocultural changes come from the bottom part of a democracy (the masses of people) by organizing protests, mass mailing to congressmen, opportunistic use of the media, responses to polls, referendums and elections. Unlike Spaniard and Hispanic-American peoples, who have become tired, bored and apathic of the political system, they are still believers in political solutions. As part of the trans- lation, include an English subject [name] which is familiar to the Anglo-Saxon cultures of recent decades and with which the Anglo-Saxon reader can identify, such as the \"sexual revolution and female liberation\" movements. 3) Take into account the English connotation (B) given of the word \"destape\" in the oxford reference used by Terry. 4) Consider the use of the word \"unleashing\" used first by Cloudy, and which convey best, in one word, the description of \". . . the incredible unleashing of energy. It felt . . . as if the floodgates had been opened.\" used by our Spaniard collegue, Susana who tell us that she lived through it. Fifth, read my comment I made to Sol below, about his \"en- lightening\" (pardon, the pum) third reference regarding \"a by-product of the female liberation movement,\" His 2nd reference just mentions different mini-movements which are just diverse little pieces of the whole sociocultural liberation puzzle. Last, but not least, as Susana recomends, leave the word \"destape\" enclosed with quotation marks. Then, follow it by an attempted three-word \"described translation,\" followed, in turn, by a brief but encompasng explanation of that particular cultural movement (similar to the explanation that you gave to us as the context in Spanish) and in the context of the bigger background of the whole socio-political liberation as a result of the end of the Franco era\'s dictatorship. So, if I were to convey the meaning of such unique coined Spaniard word, I would do it more or less like this:

El destape {unleashed liberation/[liberalization]}: A spontaneous cultural liberalization of and reaction to the social mores and norms, including sexual censorship among others, imposed by the Franco era\'s dictatorship. It was the equivalent of the American female liberation and the sexual revolution of the 60s and following decades. In a narrower sense, the connotation of the word as \"undressing\" or \"stripping\" has made \"destape\"an icon word of the sexual liberation and revolution which many Spaniards remember as the total relaxation of the formerly imposed sexual censorship, and of its unleashing reaction in the different aspects of society such as fashion, the arts, entertainment, the different kinds of media, and the whole sociocultural life after the end of the Franco dictatorship\'s era.

I\'m sorry, Suani . . . I think I got carried away. But anyway, I think you get more than an idea. I have to admit, this word is not really translatable, but just explainable. This is the kind of untranslatable unique word (typical of all languages) which motivated and challenged me to get increasingly more involved into the translation business.

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Note added at 2003-08-06 23:10:11 (GMT)
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P/D: CORRECTION OF TYPO/SPELLING:
I meant to type apathetic instead of the wrongly typed apathic. This word is important for my point because it contrasts the attitude of Hispanics, who do not see any relationtionship between massive cultural movements and changes with the political backgrounds and changes of the times because they feel bored, tired and indifferent toward any mention of politics, with the attitude of the Anglo-Saxons, who recognize this kind of massive reactions and movements as the effect of the changes in the political structure of society.

Well...I was there too!

I sympathize with Margaret's point. Beyond the "correct translation", what characterized those years was the incredible unleashing of energy. It literally felt as if the floodgates had been opened.

I would recommend leaving it in Spanish with an explanation, as the word symbolizes all those elements and would be hard to convey with a general term. Perhaps your text already explains some of these elements, and less explanation will be needed.

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Note added at 4 hrs 14 mins (2003-08-04 03:04:11 GMT)
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Source: The Collins Concise Spanish Dictionary © 2002 HarperCollins Publishers:

watershed [\'wɔːtəʃed] noun1
2 (= decisive moment) momento m clave; momento m decisivo
(= landmark) hito m

As explained by some of those above, el "destape" was primarily to do with films, magazines, and eventually theatre......

If you asked a hundred Spaniards who lived through that time what "el destape" was about, every single one most would mention nudity first - after all, that's where the word came from in the first place - "destaparse".

"La fiebre por recuperar el tiempo perdido provocó la inclusión indiscriminada de desnudos en todo tipo de películas. En esta época, conocida como del destape, perdieron viejas vergüenzas desde veteranas como Analía Gadé, Carmen Sevilla y Rocío Dúrcal, hasta las entonces principiantes Ana Belén y Amparo Muñoz. Hubo, además, otro montón de actrices que vivieron en esos días su momento de mayor gloria profesional, como Susana Estrada, su prima Blanca Estrada, Ágata Lys, Barbara Rey y Nadiuska."

Margaret, you say:
"All I'm trying to say here is that I do not think, going from Suani's statement, that this has to do with "Stripping" in the films (that actually happened before Franco died)."
Wrong, I'm afraid. This most certainly did not occur while Franco was alive. The first film in Spain of this kind was "La Trastienda".

"Si en la primera entrega os la traíamos en 'La trastienda', donde protagonizó el primer desnudo integral de nuestro cine, ,,,,"
Trastienda, la - [ Translate this page ]
La trastienda Título: LA TRASTIENDA. Año: 1976. ... Comentario: Popular en su momento
por ser la primera película española tras la dictadura en mostrar un ...
cine-filia1.iespana.es/cine-filia1/Cine%20Espanol/ Trastienda.%20la.htm - 5k - Cached - Similar pages

Año: 1976.

As you are well aware, Franco died 20th November 1975, after the "equipo médico habitual" decided to call it a day.
Andy.

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Note added at 13 hrs 23 mins (2003-08-04 12:12:22 GMT)
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I was forgetting:

\"I lived through this period in Spain and this was the true sensation. People, especially in Catalonia, the Basques country, etc. could not believe that the dictarship was over. The left-wingers (NOT communists) began to show face again after many years of exile,\"

¿Y la Pasionaria y Santiago Carrillo? ¿No eran comunistas?
\"La Pasionaria, desde 1956, avaló la línea de reconciliación nacional del nuevo jefe fáctico del Partido Comunista, si bien en sus propios discursos siempre se notaron otros acentos y otros matices que faltaban en la prosa de Carrillo.

En 1977 regresa a España tras 38 años de exilio. Es reelegida --de nuevo por Asturias-- diputada (ahora ya se decía `diputada\' y no `diputado\'); pero nulo o escasísimo papel jugó La Pasionaria en aquellas amañadas Cortes bicamerales en las que se tramó y se urdió la hoja de parra constitucional del poder borbónico restaurado.\"
Can\'t really get more communist than La Pasionaria........

Not only showing their faces on the street but sitting in Parliament.

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Note added at 13 hrs 30 mins (2003-08-04 12:19:42 GMT)
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I was forgetting:

\"I lived through this period in Spain and this was the true sensation. People, especially in Catalonia, the Basques country, etc. could not believe that the dictarship was over. The left-wingers (NOT communists) began to show face again after many years of exile,\"

¿Y la Pasionaria y Santiago Carrillo? ¿No eran comunistas?
\"La Pasionaria, desde 1956, avaló la línea de reconciliación nacional del nuevo jefe fáctico del Partido Comunista, si bien en sus propios discursos siempre se notaron otros acentos y otros matices que faltaban en la prosa de Carrillo.

En 1977 regresa a España tras 38 años de exilio. Es reelegida --de nuevo por Asturias-- diputada (ahora ya se decía `diputada\' y no `diputado\'); pero nulo o escasísimo papel jugó La Pasionaria en aquellas amañadas Cortes bicamerales en las que se tramó y se urdió la hoja de parra constitucional del poder borbónico restaurado.\"
Can\'t really get more communist than La Pasionaria........

Not only showing their faces on the street but sitting in Parliament.

Así se le llama en EE.UU. a tiempos similares en los años 60 y 70.

Kimberly's Corner
... The bra burning days of the late '60's and early '70's were designed to be a message
of rebellion against what many woman of the day felt was a male dominated ...
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