Nov 11, 2011 23:08
12 yrs ago
2 viewers *
Portuguese term
France
Por/Sp/Cat/Fr->En, IoLDipTrans, MACantab
Native in: English
Works in: Portuguese to English, Spanish to English, English, and 2 more.
muito além e aquém da
Portuguese to English
Social Sciences
Geography
Maps
This is from a text about manuscript maps drawn up in the sixteenth century. I don't understand 'além and aquém' in the context, they seem to oppose each other to me.
"Com relação ao espaço amazônico, pelo contrário, não se vê o mesmo grau de detalhamento. Na carta de 1546, mal se percebe o curso do rio Amazonas. Aqui, a referência ao grande rio concentra-se na representação das míticas amazonas, que guarnecem com seus arcos e flechas os dois lagos interiores conectados ao delta amazônico. Já no planisfério de 1550, vemos uma alteração significativa; ali, o rio ganha corpo e se estende em direção ao interior do continente. Em ambos, a posição da foz está deslocada para o oeste, ***muito além e aquém da*** linha virtual de demarcação do tratado de Tordesilhas (1494) difundida sobretudo nos mapas ibéricos.
As its referring back to 2 maps, one from 1546 and the other from 1550, might it mean that in the first the location of the source is 'além' and in the second, it's 'aquém'? Or should I just go for "the location of the source is shifted to the west, significantly far from the virtual line...."
Thanks for your help! It's for UK English.
"Com relação ao espaço amazônico, pelo contrário, não se vê o mesmo grau de detalhamento. Na carta de 1546, mal se percebe o curso do rio Amazonas. Aqui, a referência ao grande rio concentra-se na representação das míticas amazonas, que guarnecem com seus arcos e flechas os dois lagos interiores conectados ao delta amazônico. Já no planisfério de 1550, vemos uma alteração significativa; ali, o rio ganha corpo e se estende em direção ao interior do continente. Em ambos, a posição da foz está deslocada para o oeste, ***muito além e aquém da*** linha virtual de demarcação do tratado de Tordesilhas (1494) difundida sobretudo nos mapas ibéricos.
As its referring back to 2 maps, one from 1546 and the other from 1550, might it mean that in the first the location of the source is 'além' and in the second, it's 'aquém'? Or should I just go for "the location of the source is shifted to the west, significantly far from the virtual line...."
Thanks for your help! It's for UK English.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 1 +2 | significantly far from... |
Marcio Pontes
|
| 5 | either well beyond or well short of |
coolbrowne
|
| 3 +1 | considerably west of |
Muriel Vasconcellos
|
Proposed translations
+2
54 mins
Marcio Pontes
Native in Portuguese
Native in: Portuguese (Variant: Brazilian) 
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, French to English, and 7 more.
Related KudoZ points
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4
Selected
significantly far from...
It doesn't make much sense to me either. It's hard to argue for the interpretation that one is 'aquém' and the other is 'além'. But, if it helps, your text made very curious so I googled for both maps. I *think* the 1546 one is in the first URL below and the 1550 map is in the second. I'm not sure where would be the Tordesillas line in any one of them, though.
Reference:
http://photosynth.net/view.aspx?cid=1fa6e5dd-e8a6-4b63-bc00-cabd4c46548b
http://www4.crb.ucp.pt/Historia/abced%C3%A1rio/japao/jap%C3%A3o,%20p%C3%A1g%2097.jpg
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thanks, Marcio!"
1 hr
coolbrowne
United States
United States
Native in Portuguese
&
English
United States
Native in: English 
, Portuguese
Works in: English to Portuguese, Portuguese to English, Spanish to English
either well beyond or well short of
Yes, it must be referring to the two charts, since the terms contradict each other. That being understood, "muito além de X" is "well beyond X" while "muito aquém de Y" is "well short of Y"
Peer comment(s):
| neutral |
Georgia Morg (X)
: but how can it be both when it is further to the west? it says nothing about sometimes being further to the east.
6 mins
|
| neutral |
Muriel Vasconcellos
: As I understand it, neither the terms nor the maps contradict each other.
5 hrs
|
+1
6 hrs
Muriel Vasconcellos
United States
United States
Native in English
Works in field
United States
Each translation a gem!
Native in: English (Variant: US)
Works in: Spanish to English, Portuguese to English
Related KudoZ points
:
31
considerably west of
As I understand it, the terms do NOT contradict each other, nor do the maps. In both cases, the falls are now much farther west of the line demarcated by the Treaty of Tordesilhas (usually spelled 'Tordesillas' in English).
The translation of "aquém" is 'on this side of'', but if one is looking at a map, the question becomes 'Where is here?'
IMO, the two elements in the term are used to reinforce one another, not to contradict.
The translation of "aquém" is 'on this side of'', but if one is looking at a map, the question becomes 'Where is here?'
IMO, the two elements in the term are used to reinforce one another, not to contradict.
Discussion
In the article found at the link below, the translator of the article from EN to PT explains why he uses the term "o aquém e além" thus:
"O autor emprega a expressão betwixt and between – traduzida geralmente por "nem uma coisa nem outra" e que denota estado ou natureza ambígua, indeterminada."
http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S0034-77012005000100009&...