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the three S's
rebuffed
Oct 19, 2009 11:58
14 yrs ago
1 viewer *
English term

bleeder

English Art/Literary Poetry & Literature
My aim is translation but I want to have a clear monolingual understanging. For bleeder, see here:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bleeder

Which is the most appropriate sense here?

I am not sure what is meant here by bleeder and in what sense is bleeder found selfish. I.e. the bleeder considered something selfish, or the bleeder himself is considered selfish?

Only the bleeder found
Selfish this wrong way round
Is ever wholly rebuffed,

Here is the full poem
http://www.mysmallboat.info/2007/01/27/philip-larkin-3/
Responses
3 +7 none of those - just a derogatory term rather like "blighter"
4 +4 hopeless / despicable person
3 continuous misery
5 -6 someone who has hemophilia and is subject to uncontrollable bleeding
1 -3 woman

Discussion

foghorn Oct 19, 2009:
apology I guess I owe an apology. I would definitely agree with Tony’s suggestions.
Tony M Oct 19, 2009:
bleeder = woman I would just like to correct one misconception below: 'bleeder' is indeed used to refer to a woman; however, the term is extremely misogynist, disrespectful, and offensive, so perhaps certain people who move in less unsavoury circles than I have not been exposed to it.<br><br>I would certainly never advocate its use by anyone without the necessary native cultural sensitivity to know when its use might be appropriate — and in my book, on a purely personal rather than linguistic level, that would be NEVER!

Responses

+7
10 mins
Selected

none of those - just a derogatory term rather like "blighter"

I really don't think you should rely too much on the urban dictionary - many of its definitions don't relate to everyday life and language at all.

I think that "bleeder" simply has a rather derogatory meaning. The only one of those definitions that I actually recognise is the one relating to haemophilia, and whilst the others are almost certainly be used in not-so-polite society, I don't think they are what Philip Larkin is referring to here.

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Note added at 11 mins (2009-10-19 12:10:14 GMT)
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I think he could also have used, eg, "sod" or "bugger" - both fairly common terms that should NOT be taken literally!
Peer comment(s):
neutral Tony M : I think it actually comes closest to definition #3 — a 'sad', hopeless (etc.) person. 'blighter' is sadly rather dated nowadays, I believe.
2 mins
yes, I'm sure it is dated, but that's beside the point, as it probably wasn't when Philip Larkin wrote the poem. But you may have a point re Def# 3
agree Dr. Andrew Frankland : I suppose "bugger" may have been taken a bit too literally and found offensive when Larkin wrote the poem.
5 mins
Oh dear, my mum used to use it - but I think it was more "shocking" in those days - although even then it was never taken literally. Many thanks!
agree Jack Doughty
14 mins
thanks jack!
agree kathryn davies
14 mins
thanks Kathryn!
agree Annett Kottek (X) : A poor, sad loser. One also hears in 'bleeder' an echo of the 'bleeding heart' [an overly sympathetic soul], which ties in with Larkin's critique of the 'unselfish' lover in stanza 2. To be unselfish is in fact being selfish [the wrong way round].
24 mins
many thanks Annett! A good explanation, akin to a "poor unfortunate"
agree Jack Dunwell : I think like most of these expressions, the actual word is pretty meaningless; not a lot of thought invested in it. And of course "lucky bleeder" is one of the commoner uses, so where does the "unfortunate" come in? .
3 hrs
many thanks fourth! I've never actually heard "lucky bleeder", but "lucky blighter" Poor unfortunate comes from Merriam Webster
agree Rolf Keiser
3 hrs
thanks Goldcoaster!
agree Liam Hamilton
10 days
thanks Liam!
Something went wrong...
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "Selected automatically based on peer agreement."
13 mins

continuous misery

According to the link provided above, bleeder means "A slang for "being hopeless" or something like a continuous misery.
It's something negative, it can be a severe or continuous feeling.", (No. 3 in the Urban Dictionary).

And the one in misery (the man) is rebuffed.
Peer comment(s):
neutral Mirra_ : it refers to a person not to a condition, I guess
1 hr
Something went wrong...
-3
16 mins

woman

In a quite literal sense that must be a woman; in all my experience i’ve never seen a man who can be consistently called a bleeder.
Rebuff (repel) and attract are as well words that go together well with this idea.

Sexist though it may seem...


Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : STRONGLY! This is a very offensive sexist term, which would be out of keeping with the register of the rest of PL's poem, especially since I think he is writing it from a generally 1st-person perspective, i.e. a man's point of view.
5 mins
Oh, I’m sorry… i was gravely mistaken.
disagree Dr. Andrew Frankland : No way. "Bleeder" is a common term in the north of England and NEVER refers to a woman - that would be "bint" or some such!!
11 mins
sure enough.
neutral Mirra_ : it "may" seem???
1 hr
ok... it "does".
disagree Jim Tucker (X) : Explicitly a man in Larkin's poem: "and he can get stuffed"
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
+4
10 mins

hopeless / despicable person

Definitely meaning 3 from your U.D. definitions

I would interpret your extract as follows:

The only miserable individuals to be completely pushed away are those who are judged to be selfish in this particular (inverted) sense

(presumably "this wrong way round" is defined elsewhere in your poem — I don't have time to go and look right now)

In other words, I suppose, certain kinds of selfishness might be tolerated, but this particular kind of selfishness will cause miserable people to be rejected.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 mins (2009-10-19 12:12:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In your own terms, it is the 'bleeder' him/herself who is 'found' (= considered)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2009-10-19 12:23:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

OK, so "wrong way round" doesn't mean 'inverted', but just 'not acceptable / correct'

'sad bastard' might be another relatively current synonym for 'bleeder' — as carol says, probably being used here as a fairly neutral term for 'person'
Peer comment(s):
agree kathryn davies
14 mins
Thanks, Kathryn!
agree Jenni Lukac (X) : I second all of Tony's explanations, terms and reference comments concerning this word.
1 hr
Thanks a lot, Jenni!
agree Mirra_ : the last you said :)
1 hr
Thanks, Mirra!
agree Jim Tucker (X)
4 hrs
Something went wrong...
-6
38 mins

someone who has hemophilia and is subject to uncontrollable bleeding

definitions BLEEDER VALVE 6MM,Dune Buggy VW Bug (1.99 USD)
Commercial use of this term


bleeder (n.)1.someone who has hemophilia and is subject to uncontrollable bleeding

synonyms

bleeder (n.)haemophile, haemophiliac, hemophile, hemophiliac

phrases

bleeder's disease

Bleeder resistor

analogic tree

sick person; diseased person; sufferer; ill[Classe]

bleeding; hemorrhage; haemorrhage[Classe]

tuer des personnes en grand nombre (fr)[Classe]

relatif à : trouble, maladie (fr)[Classe]

(faint; feeble; flaccid; weak)[Caract.]

genetics[Domaine]

DiseaseOrSyndrome[Domaine]

unfortunate, unfortunate person - blood disease, blood disorder - sex-linked disorder - discharge, eject, exhaust, expel, release[Hyper.]

ache, hurt, pain, suffer - get, have, suffer, sustain - ache, hurt, suffer - haemophilic, hemophilic - bleeder, haemophile, haemophiliac, hemophile, hemophiliac - bleeding, haemorrhage, hemorrhage[Dérivé]

bleeder's disease, haemophilia, hemophilia[Atteint]

personne malade (fr)[Classe...]

diseased person, sick person, sufferer[Hyper.]

bleeder's disease, haemophilia, hemophilia - bleed, hemorrhage, shed blood, spill blood - haemophilic, hemophilic[Dérivé]

bleeder (n.)



Merriam-Webster (1913)

BleederBleed"er (�), n. (Med.) (a) One who, or that which, draws blood. (b) One in whom slight wounds give rise to profuse or uncontrollable bleeding.
Peer comment(s):
disagree Tony M : None of this has any relevance whatsoever to the actual context of this question.
3 mins
disagree Annett Kottek (X) : Not in this context. Larkin's 'bleeder' is a poor sod; sb. regarded either with contempt or pity; common slang.
7 mins
disagree Dr. Andrew Frankland : Absolutely not.
19 mins
disagree Rolf Keiser : sorry, wrong file!!
2 hrs
disagree Jim Tucker (X) : read the asker's text first
3 hrs
disagree Yasutomo Kanazawa : sorry, but way off the track
3 hrs
Something went wrong...
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