May 8, 2009 18:50
15 yrs ago
34 viewers *
French term

chef des conclusions

French to English Law/Patents Law: Contract(s) court proceedings;
employment contract vs patent ownership litigation between company and salaried employee
as in the phrase:
qu'en s'abstenant de répondre à ce chef des conclusions, la cour d'appel a violé l'article...

Discussion

gsloane May 11, 2009:
The same goes for civil litigation in Ontario We have the statement of claim, statement of defence, etc, all considered pleadings.

My question is now: how do we define the word "claim" in legal terminology? And how does one differentiate between a claim and a submission/argument? Are we using these terms loosely without any real understanding of their definition?

Do we rely upon "Black's Law Dictionary" (it's a US publication, but I still stand by my argument that the definitions of common law practised anywhere in the world mean the same ) as our ultimate guide?
Nikki Scott-Despaigne May 10, 2009:
In England and Wales speaking after having worked a few years in civil litigation, you have the statement of claim, the statement of defence and counterclaim, all of which form part of the pleadings. PLeadings alone here is too general in my view.

Head of claim (as in item of claim) reads quite well to me, without any great context, I must admit. However, given that I am generally only happy to stick my neck out when I know what I'm talking about, if the target reader is US, then the term may be different. When I am not sure, I prefer to say! Thus for a final reader in England and Wales, "head of claim" is spot on, but no guarantee for the US.
MatthewLaSon May 9, 2009:
Thanks! Have fun! Thanks for discussing. I learned a few things.
gsloane May 9, 2009:
Submissions/Pleadings It could be pleadings as well. I haven't discounted "pleadings". And I agree that "chef de" may be superfluous. In all honesty, my first off-the-cuff translation would have been "a(n) submission/pleading/argument". For more in depth discussion.

Running off to a French language play matinée performance!
MatthewLaSon May 9, 2009:
Why not "pleadings", though. How do you know they are not pleadings that were ignored? Why "particular submissions/pleadings", even though that is what "chef" means. "Particular" isn't necessary as it's understood what submissions/pleadings are in question here, imo.
gsloane May 9, 2009:
Origins of translation and target audience The first question we should have asked was the source of the original text. European or North American? And secondly who is the target audience?<br><br>Canadian law, both common and civil, are rooted in European law (ie UK for common law and France for civil law - code civil). Both types of law on either side of the Atlantic have quasi similar structures with differences in customs and some terminology. (I actually studied the concepts and theories of civil law in France as part of my translation training.)<br><br>The reason I refer to Canada as an excellent source for bilingual legal terms is simply because both the federal and Quebec governments have conducted excellent and in depth research leading to the development of legitimate bilingual legal terminology banks, especially in Quebec where both common law and civil law are taught.<br><br>I also didn't come across a direct translation for "chef des conclusions" but I did come across a direct one for "head of claim" = "chef de demande". I gave my reasons for supporting "particular submissions" because a claim is different from a submission. A claim is describing your grievance and a submission is an argument in support

Proposed translations

+1
22 hrs
Selected

these submission/pleadings

Hello,

See "Discussion Area"

I think this would be suffice. I'm not sure if these are pleadings or submissions.

chef = particular


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Note added at 22 hrs (2009-05-09 17:46:42 GMT)
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these "submissionS", I mean.
Note from asker:
Vey interesting discussion all round, Big thanks to all participants
Peer comment(s):

agree gsloane
1 day 1 hr
Thanks, glsoane! I do back you up on your argument on here. You have made excellent points.
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer. Comment: "I agree, BTW it was a claim in an appeal to the cour de cassation, Paris From he context it does not appear to be the principal claim, which in retrospect is the word I think I would have used had no the deadline and a lot of other material intervened"
11 hrs

one particular head of the claim's conclusions

See my comment in the discussion part

The court of appeal was wrong in not answering one of the conclusions of the claim

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Note added at 11 hrs (2009-05-09 05:55:21 GMT)
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this is what I understand : the court of appeal has committed an error in law by keeping silent about one of the conclusions of the claimant's arguments.

Hope it helps.


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Note added at 12 hrs (2009-05-09 07:00:48 GMT)
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As it is an appeal procedure, as Matthew pointed out, the exact wording should reflect that : head of the appeal procedure's conclusions

What is the name of the specific appeal's procedure in this case. Which court are we before? It is the highest court? Supreme Court? Are we in the USA?
Peer comment(s):

neutral gsloane : Although you are on the right track with your reference to the Grand dictionnaire terminologique, your suggested translation isn't accurate.
1 hr
am I not saying the same thing as you : "this is what I understand : the court of appeal has committed an error in law by keeping silent about one of the conclusions of the claimant's arguments".
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+1
30 mins

particular submission

* not my field, but seems to fit your text.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2009-05-09 18:29:16 GMT)
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I see also; head of damage = item of damage in a pleading or claim ('English' Dictionary of Law - P.H.Collin
Peer comment(s):

agree gsloane : See my posted reference
11 hrs
Merci beaucoup: not my field but I'm very happy to have expert support!
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+4
1 hr

head of claim

FR

un chef isolé des conclusions

EN

specific head of claim

ref: IATE
Some EC texts also use chef du recours

Claims for head office overheads and profit
11 Feb 1998 ... Here the Judge accepted that such a head of claim was admissible but refused to award any sum as he considered that the quantum was ...
www.brewerconsulting.co.uk/cases/CJ9821CL.htm

The Court Service-Court of Appeal Civil-Judgment
3 Feb 1993 ... The first head of claim reflects an allegation that the claimant had been told in ... He then identified the issues raised in the pleadings. ...
www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/judgmentsfiles/j362/civil_darya...

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Note added at 12 hrs (2009-05-09 07:24:20 GMT)
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From the EU (not Canada):

2. Le Tribunal est tenu de rejeter comme irrecevable un chef des conclusions de la requête qui lui est présentée dès lors que les éléments essentiels de fait et de droit sur lesquels ce chef des conclusions est fondé ne ressortent pas d'une façon cohérente et compréhensible du texte de cette requête elle-même. Il s'ensuit que l'absence de tels éléments dans la requête ne peut être palliée par leur présentation lors de l'audience.

2. The Court of First Instance is obliged to reject as inadmissible a head of claim in an application brought before it if the essential matters of law and of fact on which the head of claim is based are not indicated coherently and intelligibly in the application itself. It follows that the failure to state such matters in the application cannot be compensated for by putting them forward at the hearing.

http://curia.europa.eu/common/recdoc/repertoire_jurisp/bull_...

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Note added at 23 hrs (2009-05-09 18:28:49 GMT)
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please note: chef des conclusions seems to be a set phrase and dissecting it into its various parts just distorts things. We all know that conclusions can be translated in several ways but that's not the issue here. I stand by this translation. I feel the refs speak for themselves.

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Note added at 5 days (2009-05-13 19:34:38 GMT) Post-grading
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I stand by my answer. I am certain it was right. Pity all the pages of verbose overkill were taken seriously. There wasn't a single ref to substantiate a thing that was said .. and said.. and said.. and......... An answered pull out of the air and backed by same........

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Note added at 5 days (2009-05-14 10:02:46 GMT) Post-grading
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And no mention at all of the term asked. A super snow job. Well, there is a lot of snow au Canada....... :-)
Peer comment(s):

agree Charlotte Allen
1 hr
agree Michèle Voyer : exact
9 hrs
neutral gsloane : See my posted reference
9 hrs
I don't see how you can refer solely to (French) Canadian sources for European law and European French. During my research, I saw no Canadian texts with 'chef des conclusions' and see no entry at all in the GDT for 'chef des conclusions'.
agree cjohnstone
10 hrs
agree Nikki Scott-Despaigne
2 days 2 hrs
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Reference comments

10 hrs
Reference:

chef des conclusions

Chef is head for sure, see Grand Dictionnaire Terminologique :
"Note(s) : On parle ainsi d'un chef d'accusation, d'un chef de demande et, en particulier, d'un chef de préjudice, d'un chef de jugement ou d'arrêt. Chef n'a pas d'équivalent anglais unique : dans le cas d'un chef d'accusation, on parle en anglais de count, dans le cas d'un chef de demande, de head (of claim), dans le cas d'un chef de jugement, de finding."

But not sure about "conclusions".

These are arguments raised by the claimant in his procedure. So it could be that the court of appeal omitted to answer one of the "heads of the submissions" meaning one of the submissions of his claim. Or one of his arguments or pleading.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

agree gsloane
9 hrs
Something went wrong...
12 hrs
Reference:

chef des conclusions

As I've stated previously, Canada reigns supreme when it comes to accuracy of legal terms in both French and English simply because the practice of both common law and civil law is sanctioned in French and English.

Extensive research has been conducted by the Quebec Research Centre of Private and Comparative Law, the end result being the publication in two volumes of "Private Law Dictionaries and Bilingual Lexicons" and updated editions.

The online version of Grand dictionnaire terminologique (http://www.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/ressources/gdt.html) of l'Office québécois de la langue française and the Larousse indicate that the translation for "chef" = charge, count, indictment and "conclusions" = submissions, findings. "Chef de demande" is translated as "head of claim" which makes sense because the initial translation of "demande" is "request" and the initial translation of "conclusions" is "conclusions", "findings", "submissions".

Therefore, if we were to literally translate "ce chef des conclusions", we would arrive at "this count of submissions" which doesn't really make sense in English. Hence my reason for supporting "this particular submission".

The translation agency of the Ontario government has developed a very efficient bilingual legal terminology bank with respect to common law terms.

Elsewhere on this site, the bilingual legal tomes published by the Council of Europe is highly recommended. I haven't reviewed these publications but I have used the Research Centre's publication and have found it to be extraordinarily accurate.

The Quebec legal publishing house, Éditions Yvon Blais, has an excellent collection of bilingual and monlingual publications for purchase.

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Note added at 12 hrs (2009-05-09 07:07:52 GMT)
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Here's my initial suggested translation of "qu'en s'abstenant de répondre à ce chef des conclusions, la cour d'appel a violé l'article":

"that refraining from responding to this particular submission, the Court of Appeal has violated Article..."

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Note added at 19 hrs (2009-05-09 14:15:25 GMT)
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Writeaway, here's a direct text from le Grand dictionnaire terminologique defining "conclusions" in French:

Définition :
Acte de procédure par lequel le demandeur expose ses chefs de demande, le défendeur ses moyens de défense. C'est par le dépôt des conclusions que le débat est lié. Le juge a l'obligation de répondre à tous les chefs des conclusions.
.
.

. Note(s) :
Devant le tribunal de grande instance, seuls les avocats ont le droit de conclure pour le compte d'un plaideur et les conclusions ne constituent pas toujours un acte indépendant : l'assignation pour le demandeur, la requête conjointe pour les deux parties tiennent lieu de conclusions.

The basic tenets and foundation of common law and civil law are the same in both Canada and Europe. The differences lie in legislation and application thereof and terminology. However, basic terms, such as pleadings, submissions, arguments, claims, etc are common law terms which have the same meanings wherever common law is practised in the world or else it isn't common law. The same holds true for civil law.

The difficulties we encounter in legal translation arise because we are attempting to translate common law terms into French (which are non-existent because the French don't practise common law) and civil law terms in English (which are also non-existent). Hence the reason for the establishment of a research centre at McGill dedicated to developing bilingual standard terms for both common law and civil law.

I have found over the years that legal translations in Canada tend to be more accurate than in Europe simply because both types of law are practised here in both languages and terms have had to be developed in both languages.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2009-05-09 14:27:41 GMT)
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Michèle, I apologize for saying that your suggested translation wasn't accurate. What I should have said was that your explanation was accurate but your suggested translation was a bit convoluted. I believe that it suffices to say "particular submissions" or a similar term. There is no need to make any reference to this being an appeal of a decision made by a Court of Appeal simply because there is no reference to it in the text provided by the Asker. The only reference to "appeal" is used in "court of appeal". I prefer to translate the text as it presents itself, especially in legal translations which have to be accurate, and only offer up explanations in parentheses if I'm leaving a term in the source language for which there is no existing equivalent term in the target language.

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Note added at 20 hrs (2009-05-09 15:24:05 GMT)
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Writeaway, all I'm trying to say is that Canada lives both common law and civil law in French and English, especially in Quebec, and by sheer use, the Canadians have had to develop legitimate terms in both languages for both types of law. I don't believe there is any country in Europe (and I stand corrected if I'm wrong) which actively practises common law and civil law in both languages. For this reason, I fully support Canadian legal terminology. The research has been exhaustive, meticulous and in depth. I tend to find that less so in Europe in the area of law. This is all about translating common law terms into French, using French words that accurately express the English language meaning, such as the difference between a claim and a pleading or argument . They are not interchangeable terms.
Peer comments on this reference comment:

neutral writeaway : I stick by my answer, the refs I found seem quite solid, even if they are not Canadian. I don't understand the propensity for using Canadian refs for translating European legal docs. Over the years, I've found it's best to stick close to the source.
7 hrs
I agree to sticking close to the source. What differs is terminology, like European vs Canadian. A pleading is a pleading, not a claim. That's where I have difficulty. In fact, the claim is the first step, then pleadings/arguments.
agree MatthewLaSon : I agree that Canadian terms may fit better, particularly for the reasons you stated above. Very good points. But, I'm still not sure of the best translation here.
11 hrs
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