Glossary entry (derived from question below)
French term or phrase:
[un mélange] savant
English translation:
[a jumble/mixed bag/muddle of] "knowledge"/supposed knowledge
Added to glossary by
Helen Shiner
Aug 4, 2008 05:12
15 yrs ago
2 viewers *
French term
savant
French to English
Other
Cooking / Culinary
"Cependant, des idées confuses sur le sujet persistent. Beaucoup de restaurateurs font l’amalgame entre les différentes solutions proposées face à des attentes diversement formulées. De ce fait, un mélange "savant" se fait autour des concepts diététiques, de la cuisine Bio, ou non OGM…"
I need help for feel here. I know what savant means in its strictest sense but need some ideas for this context. How we translate mélange may also impact on this.
Thanks
I need help for feel here. I know what savant means in its strictest sense but need some ideas for this context. How we translate mélange may also impact on this.
Thanks
Proposed translations
(English)
Change log
Aug 5, 2008 08:17: Helen Shiner changed "Edited KOG entry" from "<a href="/profile/733747">Chris Galtress's</a> old entry - "savant"" to ""[a jumble/mixed bag/muddle of] "knowledge"/supposed knowledge""
Proposed translations
+1
14 hrs
Selected
[a jumble/mixed bag/muddle of] "knowledge"/supposed knowledge
... has built up around.
One or two other suggestions! Your suggestion of 'hotch-potch' would also work in this formulation. In general I think it might be easier and sound more natural in English if the adjective of the French is turned into a noun in English.
One or two other suggestions! Your suggestion of 'hotch-potch' would also work in this formulation. In general I think it might be easier and sound more natural in English if the adjective of the French is turned into a noun in English.
3 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you Helen.
I used my 'hotch potch' and your 'knowledge' - adjective to noun was a good trick - and one that I'll remember."
+1
39 mins
wise, with common sense
as to "mélange", I think you could use: mixture or combination
Peer comment(s):
agree |
looby
53 mins
|
neutral |
Emma Paulay
: I think it means the opposite here.
2 hrs
|
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: Agree with Emma
16 hrs
|
1 hr
guesstimate
The idea being that the people doing menus don't really know what the're up to but have taken the info they think they have and have come up with what they think their customers will, hem hem 'swallow'.
wiki: guesstimate
Guesstimate is a portmanteau of the words guess and estimate. It describes a process of estimation that includes an element of guesswork, and implies that the result of the guesstimate will be less reliable than an estimation based on more confident information. Like the word estimate, guesstimate may be used as a verb or a noun (with the same change in pronunciation).
The word is usually not considered correct in formal English. Most if not all users of the word are aware of this and use the word in a humorous or informal way. However, both the Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster include definitions for "guesstimate" and, according to the OED, it has been used in print as early as 1936.
Guesstimates form a part of many case interviews. The interviewee may be asked to calculate anything from the number of buffaloes in Indonesia to the number of six packs of beer sold on Saint Patrick's Day in Michigan. Though the interviewer is not expecting an accurate answer, it is important to follow a line of logic to arrive at the final guesstimate.
wiki: guesstimate
Guesstimate is a portmanteau of the words guess and estimate. It describes a process of estimation that includes an element of guesswork, and implies that the result of the guesstimate will be less reliable than an estimation based on more confident information. Like the word estimate, guesstimate may be used as a verb or a noun (with the same change in pronunciation).
The word is usually not considered correct in formal English. Most if not all users of the word are aware of this and use the word in a humorous or informal way. However, both the Oxford English Dictionary and Merriam-Webster include definitions for "guesstimate" and, according to the OED, it has been used in print as early as 1936.
Guesstimates form a part of many case interviews. The interviewee may be asked to calculate anything from the number of buffaloes in Indonesia to the number of six packs of beer sold on Saint Patrick's Day in Michigan. Though the interviewer is not expecting an accurate answer, it is important to follow a line of logic to arrive at the final guesstimate.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: It might be a guesstimate effectively, but don't think this is near enough as a translation.
15 hrs
|
+4
1 hr
a pseudo-knowledgeable amalgamation
Or even "unholy mess."
My reading of the text is that "savant" is being used ironically; people have put together a number of green/health ideas that din't necessarily belong together
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-04 07:08:47 GMT)
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Hotchpotch is works well, though in my experience it's almost always written in its variant Hodge-Podge. Personally I like "unholy mess."
My reading of the text is that "savant" is being used ironically; people have put together a number of green/health ideas that din't necessarily belong together
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Note added at 1 hr (2008-08-04 07:08:47 GMT)
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Hotchpotch is works well, though in my experience it's almost always written in its variant Hodge-Podge. Personally I like "unholy mess."
Note from asker:
This has pointed me towards "hotch potch" but this would not convery the inherent irony perhaps. |
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Tony M
: Certainly the way I read it too
10 mins
|
Thank you.
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agree |
mimi 254
1 hr
|
Merci
|
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agree |
Jean-Louis S.
4 hrs
|
Thank you.
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agree |
Helen Shiner
: Agree with your understanding but don't think amalgamation is quite right./Know what amalgamation means, but doesn't sound good here.
12 hrs
|
Merci. (See definition of amalgamation below).
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neutral |
ormiston
: amalgam perhaps, but not amalgamation for sure. Didn't mean to sound that sure - it was a gut reaction.Sorry.
13 hrs
|
amalgamation: "something that is a combination of different things or results from their amalgamation" Encarta. Sounds right to me.
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2 hrs
French term (edited):
"savant" mélange
unsuccessful combination of ingredients
I agree with émiledgar that this is ironic. The usual phrase is "savant mélange" which means a well-dosed or successful mixture. Here they're suggesting it's the opposite.
Perhaps "strange concoction" would work too.
Perhaps "strange concoction" would work too.
Peer comment(s):
neutral |
Helen Shiner
: I do like concoction - its appropriate to this case, but needs something to convey irony to go with it.
15 hrs
|
+1
2 hrs
a judicious fusion
or combination
ie, mix and match - taking a bit out of each concept to suit the purpose
ie, mix and match - taking a bit out of each concept to suit the purpose
Peer comment(s):
agree |
myrden
2 hrs
|
thanks myrden. And I forgot to retain the quotes - for the irony. It should read: "judicious" fusion/selection of....
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+1
3 hrs
a purportedly/ supposedly 'knowedgeable' (fusion)
also thought of 'savvy' ...
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Helen Shiner
: I prefer this version, though I don't think fusion is the best word for mélange in this instance. Am racking my brains for something better./Or confusion of ideas/notions.
11 hrs
|
yes, could smack of fusion cooking! What about 'blend' or combination ?
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+2
4 hrs
pseudo-scientific
Perhaps a pseudo-scientific hotch potch?
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Sheila Wilson
: Just the right expression, in my opinion
19 mins
|
Thanks Sheila
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agree |
Jean-Louis S.
2 hrs
|
Thanks jlsjr
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neutral |
Helen Shiner
: It does not, however, contain the irony of the French, even if the meaning may ultimately be the same.
10 hrs
|
+2
5 hrs
smart/clever
a smart combination/mixture of ...
a clever combination/mixture of....
I believe that it this word refers to the restaurant owners knowing how to please their customer's, by knowing what they want. That makes them clever IMO
a clever combination/mixture of....
I believe that it this word refers to the restaurant owners knowing how to please their customer's, by knowing what they want. That makes them clever IMO
Peer comment(s):
agree |
Philippa Smith
44 mins
|
Thanks Philippa
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agree |
Enrique Huber (X)
6 hrs
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Thanks Enrique
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7 hrs
elaborate combination
Something like: "an elaboration combination is devised from..."
10 hrs
French term (edited):
"savant"
"knowledgeable"
Not changing the style!
13 hrs
"skillfull" mix (well-devised blend)
Hello,
My try...
They're trying to incorporate all three in the most skillfull of manners.
I hope this helps.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2008-08-05 01:34:16 GMT)
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Used ironically...
My try...
They're trying to incorporate all three in the most skillfull of manners.
I hope this helps.
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Note added at 20 hrs (2008-08-05 01:34:16 GMT)
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Used ironically...
Discussion
The sujet is Organic food.