Feb 18, 2008 17:47
16 yrs ago
English term
United States
Intelligent Translations for Business
Native in: French 
, Spanish , English
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 1 more.
Koninklijk Museum voor Schone Kunsten
English to French
Art/Literary
Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
academic article regarding astronomy in painting
Throughout this academic article about painter Van Eyk and his extremely scientific/accurate renderings of the moon, place/museum names are provided either in English or in their original language (as is the case for the particular term I'm asking about). In general, I'm not sure whether to translate these into French in the text, following it with the original text in parenthesis, whether to translate content of the parentheses into French, or whether to leave the name untranslated within the parentheses. Please help! The entire paragraph is below for more context:
In addition to the three other Eyckian examples of lunar depictions discussed by Leonardi, in paintings in Berlin, Turin et Paris (voir Leonardi figs. 7-11), Montgomery had identified another three: the waning gibbous Moon in the Knights of Christ panel on the left interior wing of the Ghent Altarpiece (Gand, St-Baafskathedraal); the Moon in late crescent phase with earthshine in the unfinished St. Barbara in Anvers (Koninklijk Museum voor Schone Kunsten); and the three-quarter Moon, with the maria faintly visible, seen above the distant hill in the Baptism of Christ, the bas-de-page of the Birth of St. John the Baptist page in the Turin-Milan Book of Hours (Turin, Museo Civico). This makes a total of seven lunar paintings by Jan van Eyck and his followers, with possibly some contribution(s) by Hubert van Eyck, depending on how one attributes the Berlin et Gand paintings.
In addition to the three other Eyckian examples of lunar depictions discussed by Leonardi, in paintings in Berlin, Turin et Paris (voir Leonardi figs. 7-11), Montgomery had identified another three: the waning gibbous Moon in the Knights of Christ panel on the left interior wing of the Ghent Altarpiece (Gand, St-Baafskathedraal); the Moon in late crescent phase with earthshine in the unfinished St. Barbara in Anvers (Koninklijk Museum voor Schone Kunsten); and the three-quarter Moon, with the maria faintly visible, seen above the distant hill in the Baptism of Christ, the bas-de-page of the Birth of St. John the Baptist page in the Turin-Milan Book of Hours (Turin, Museo Civico). This makes a total of seven lunar paintings by Jan van Eyck and his followers, with possibly some contribution(s) by Hubert van Eyck, depending on how one attributes the Berlin et Gand paintings.
Proposed translations
(French)
| 4 +2 | be consistent |
Jennifer Levey
|
| 5 +2 | Musée Royal des Beaux-Arts |
Philippe Maillard
|
| 4 +2 | Keep in original language, explain if nec. |
Tony M
|
Change log
Mar 4, 2009 22:35: M.A.B. changed "Field (specific)" from "Astronomy & Space" to "Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting"
Proposed translations
+2
1 hr
Jennifer Levey
Chile
Chile
Native in English
Chile
Human-scale Globalization
Native in: English (Variant: British)
Works in: Spanish to English, French to English, English to Spanish, and 2 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
8
Selected
be consistent
In answer to the wider question (see Carolingua's 'asker note' above), I suggest that the most important thing is to be consistent and logical (even if the author of the English was neither...).
I would:
- translate the names of the works of art into French (using 'official translations', where available);
- use the 'native language' names of the institutions (after all, that's what visitors will see written over the door... and what they will need to search for on the Web);
- use the conventional names in French for the towns/cities and other geographical names, where they exist; otherwise use the 'native language' name.
That means, for example:
- translating 'alterpiece' into French
- keeping Koninklijk Museum voor Schone Kunsten, St-Baafskathedraal and Museo Civico;
- using the French city names: Gand, Anvers (where the correct English is G(h)ent and Antwerp and the Flemish is Ghent and Antwerpen) Milan and Turin (same in English, the Italian being Milano and Torino).
I suspect the source text author was trying to follow this convention, but assumed (wrongly) that Antwerp and G(h)ent are in French-speaking Belgium (so used the official French names) when in fact they are both in the Flemish-speaking region.
I would:
- translate the names of the works of art into French (using 'official translations', where available);
- use the 'native language' names of the institutions (after all, that's what visitors will see written over the door... and what they will need to search for on the Web);
- use the conventional names in French for the towns/cities and other geographical names, where they exist; otherwise use the 'native language' name.
That means, for example:
- translating 'alterpiece' into French
- keeping Koninklijk Museum voor Schone Kunsten, St-Baafskathedraal and Museo Civico;
- using the French city names: Gand, Anvers (where the correct English is G(h)ent and Antwerp and the Flemish is Ghent and Antwerpen) Milan and Turin (same in English, the Italian being Milano and Torino).
I suspect the source text author was trying to follow this convention, but assumed (wrongly) that Antwerp and G(h)ent are in French-speaking Belgium (so used the official French names) when in fact they are both in the Flemish-speaking region.
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Tony M
: Very good advice!
2 hrs
|
| agree |
Audrey Langlasse
: I totally agree with you
4 hrs
|
| neutral |
writeaway
: agree that local Flemish churches etc should keep their Dutch names, but for national museums, like the Fine Arts Museum in Antwerp, it's best for the French name to be used for English readership.
13 hrs
|
4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "Thank you for the advice; I found this very helpful and it resonated with my own instinct of what I needed to do with this text."
+2
2 mins
Philippe Maillard
Brazil
Brazil
Native in English
&
French
Brazil
Accuracy first
Native in: French (Variants: Belgian, Standard-France) , English (Variant: UK)
Works in: English to French, Portuguese to French
Related KudoZ points
:
4
Musée Royal des Beaux-Arts
Musée Royal des Beaux-Arts
La collection du Musée Royal des Beaux-Arts d’Anvers donne une bonne idée de la production artistique dans nos contrées depuis le XIVe siècle. ...
www.antwerpen.be/eCache/BFR/4/363.html - 10k - En cache - Pages similaires
La collection du Musée Royal des Beaux-Arts d’Anvers donne une bonne idée de la production artistique dans nos contrées depuis le XIVe siècle. ...
www.antwerpen.be/eCache/BFR/4/363.html - 10k - En cache - Pages similaires
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
writeaway
: http://www.vlaamsekunstcollectie.be/index.aspx?local=fr&p=an...
24 mins
|
|
Merci writeaway : des répondants, seuls vous et moi sommes Belges :-)))
|
|
| agree |
Marie Perrin
18 hrs
|
|
Merci Marie
|
+2
3 mins
Keep in original language, explain if nec.
Perosnally, I'd leave it in the original language, and if really necessary (depending on the importantce of understanding it, and the intellectual level of the readership) and a translation into FR in brackets after it.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 mins (2008-02-18 17:54:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But it really all depends on the intended readership, and how much it actually matters if they understand every word.
For example, if readers were going to have to visit this place, or write to it, they would need only to know its name in the original language — signposts wouldn't list it in FR, and a letter addressed in FR might not get there.
On the other hand, if there was something especially significant about the actual meaning of the words, then translation might be the best bet.
Of course, in your particular case, Belgium being a bi-lingual country, the issue is perhaps less clear! Whatever, if you DO end up translating it, in that case for goodness' sake make sure you use the 'official' translation, as given by Philippe!
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 mins (2008-02-18 17:54:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
But it really all depends on the intended readership, and how much it actually matters if they understand every word.
For example, if readers were going to have to visit this place, or write to it, they would need only to know its name in the original language — signposts wouldn't list it in FR, and a letter addressed in FR might not get there.
On the other hand, if there was something especially significant about the actual meaning of the words, then translation might be the best bet.
Of course, in your particular case, Belgium being a bi-lingual country, the issue is perhaps less clear! Whatever, if you DO end up translating it, in that case for goodness' sake make sure you use the 'official' translation, as given by Philippe!
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Platary (X)
: Je suis de cet avis.
7 mins
|
|
Merci, Olivier !
|
|
| neutral |
writeaway
: it's Belgium so French IS one of the official languages
23 mins
|
|
Yes, I have to confess, I had answered on the general principle, before I noticed that Anvers is in Belgium! But I think my answer holds for all other countries where the target isn't one of the official languages
|
|
| agree |
Christine Cooreman
: Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec cette approche ! Si l'auteur ne se décide pas, ce n'est pas au traducteur de le faire... Et puis, entrer dans les bagarres linguistiques belges...aïe, aïe, aïe... :)
3 hrs
|
|
Merci, Christine !
|
Discussion
Il ne fait pas partie du pôle Musées des Etablissements Scientifiques Fédéraux (ESF). Ne pas confondre avec les Musées Royaux des Beaux-arts